assassin insta-kill?

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Celorn
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Post by Celorn »

Binkyuk wrote:Etherealness's duration has been slashed to 1 round now though (2 if you're exceptionally dedicated). You do have to chase them but really not very far.
True enough... except for the NWN problem of ZONES -- you can't tell in most cases if they've transitioned or not, so you can't really chase them.

But anyway, so far there isn't a threat, and it does add some spice to the lives of all aetherians.
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Amoenotep
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Post by Amoenotep »

there are so many restrictions on the insta kill attack that 7 out of 10 times an assassin will have to just stand there and wait for a long long time to use it...hence him actually being an assassin, the patience....also what good is an assassin that can't insta kill...might as well be a leg breaker for the mob or something.
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Malik
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Post by Malik »

I think its brilliant and fully support the new addition, assassins already were fun, but now if you put a lot of thought and dedication into one it can be very effective. Defiantly a needed change that has completed the class in my opinion.
Last edited by Malik on Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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disastro
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Post by disastro »

Amoenotep wrote:there are so many restrictions on the insta kill attack that 7 out of 10 times an assassin will have to just stand there and wait for a long long time to use it...hence him actually being an assassin, the patience....also what good is an assassin that can't insta kill...might as well be a leg breaker for the mob or something.
a good point, however last night this assassin was successful with this attack at least 7 or 8 times in the course of about an hour, and i dont think it failed once (whoever played him would know more.) etherealness +monk speed/zone out then hide/rest/try again was remarkably successful. run around a corner and you can hide again.

to make the patience required pay off it might be worth looking at other debilitating effects that are very powerful without making the target feel like it's time to just go home:

-80% of max hp damage + unresistable slow effect. so an injured target might die anyway.
-add in major ability damage across the board: -6 to each stat
-big percent damage plus a major -regen if this is possible enginewise
-80% spell failure
-minimum damage component that might still result in a kill vs the right kind of opponent
--- add any or all of these as the assassin levels up. reduce the 5 minute timer so they can do it more often.

things like this make the assassin very badass and frightening, and while death is almost certainly going to follow soon after, it gives the target a small chance of survival (at the moment i'd say the majority of builds dont have a chance at all against this death attack).

the main thing here is that the save progression versus poison is not balanced the way save vs other death effects in the game. I know, folks will say "insta kill is what assassins DO!" however i would counter that while this is appropriate in a book or movie, it might not be good challenge for a pvp game (see 'devastating critical'). besides... in that case where's my fighter's vorpal blade? ;)

LinuxPup
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Post by LinuxPup »

I was the assassin last night.

Some of the people I killed just had lousy fortitude saves, that said, there are many feats and items that can be used to increase your fortitude. At level 40 my drow assassin has a DC of 46, after using a +4 intelligence book. It's pretty easy to get a fortitude into the 40s by level 40. Also, with respect to fortitude saving throws, remember that all assassins are evil (hint).

We're keeping our eye on this ability, and if we come to the conclusion that it needs to be altered for balance reasons we'll do so, but right now it seems pretty fair.
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-BannyD-
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Post by -BannyD- »

DC 46 isnt that scary. but im wondering if spellcraft helps vs the save. Barbarian bloody roar is about a dc 46 yet doesnt work often cause spellcraft makes it an easy save.

and plus the whole patience thing makes it a b*tch to use. not to mention the timer limits its usage even more.

counter to assassin: Elf spotter/listener. Assassin wont have more than a 100hide/ms most likely...easy to spot. also stay away from corners if you have an inkling an assassin is nearby.

doesnt seem to be that much of a problem, especially since in major combat this ability is useless as the targets would be in combat.

however i could be wrong...havent actually experienced it yet
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Metis
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Post by Metis »

Like linux said its being monitored and if it needs a change we change it, feedback is great but give it a little time and dont pounce on the idea right out of the gate.

Spellcraft does not help. Also for assasins previously their best ability was death attack most npc and almost anyone with a few levels has fom on, to bad its hard coded.

This comment is being made by me as a player and does not represent any future changes - *disclaimer

I like the dc to be higher, it requires hug dedication and some luck to get the dc high enough, I didnt see the build from last night but if I could go on make a 40 and level it how I want with all the best gear possible, I would want more then a mid 40 save since this would be the best possible build you can make for that class.
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disastro
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Post by disastro »

linuxpup: agreed, lets see how it plays out.
-BannyD- wrote:DC 46 isnt that scary. but im wondering if spellcraft helps vs the save...

/ counter to assassin: Elf spotter/listener.

/ in major combat this ability is useless as the targets would be in combat.
fyi i'm pretty sure spellcraft doesnt help agains the poison save. spotting the assassin wont necessarily help against the poison attack since he doesn't have to be hidden for it to work (though you do have to be hidden for the other standard paralysis death attack iirc.) though of course spotting the assassin leads to all sorts of 'kill him first counters' ;)

lastly, it looks like 'in combat' means standing still and swinging your weapon: if you disengage to run after somebody or if you are auto chasing somebody you have targetted, you are no longer 'in combat' and the poison attack works (this happened to me last night).

it will certainly be interesting times! :)

LinuxPup
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Post by LinuxPup »

You don't have to be hidden to paralyze someone with regular death attack. You're correct disastro, you can still assassinate someone who's "in combat" (their battle music is playing, and their rest button can't be pushed). If they have the attack icon (or a spell icon) on the top left of the screen, then they shouldn't be vulnerable. The target of the attack should be a creature, so bashing a door shouldn't make you invulnerable.
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-BannyD-
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Post by -BannyD- »

LinuxPup wrote:You don't have to be hidden to paralyze someone with regular death attack. You're correct disastro, you can still assassinate someone who's "in combat" (their battle music is playing, and their rest button can't be pushed). If they have the attack icon (or a spell icon) on the top left of the screen, then they shouldn't be vulnerable. The target of the attack should be a creature, so bashing a door shouldn't make you invulnerable.
oh wow, then thats easy as pie to pull off...i detract my statement about patience needed...finding a target when they arent directly slashing at a monster/person is quite easy..
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Blystos Re
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Post by Blystos Re »

LinuxPup wrote:Also, with respect to fortitude saving throws, remember that all assassins are evil (hint).


:twisted:

Sparky
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Post by Sparky »

I've been watching people's Fort saves during the testing period and have observed the following:

Characters with High base Fort Saves/ High Con, level 35 and over tended to have Fort saves ranging from 35-39 on Average.

Other such characters had lower base Fort saves.

My testing Assassin was a 6 Rogue/6 Fighter/28 Assassin, whose Average above ground save was a 43. (+4 INT book included). I did make my Assassin a Ghostwise Halfling, so my Hide was fairly exceptional, though my Move Silent was such that a sufficiently dedicated Bard would be able to find me with a fair amount of consistency.

End result, if you pick your targets smartly, you'll be successful, otherwise, you'll get what you deserve.
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