The Letter of the Law

[Bargeld]

You'd be surprised how many people don't know the rules... tep's recent bump of the commandments shows that. You see a lot of ppl who follow by example, but see the wrong examples being set.

[Amoenotep]

its getting bad when a player venge logged me twice in the same 20min period on a char he didn't know was me....

[Korr]

its getting bad when a player venge logged me twice in the same 20min period on a char he didn't know was me....

or he knew... and hates you that much. OFC I mean love not hate ';)

[Ireheart']

its getting bad when a player venge logged me twice in the same 20min period on a char he didn't know was me....

ROFL
wish I'd seen that one.

[Carejo]

its getting bad when a player venge logged me twice in the same 20min period on a char he didn't know was me....

And I bet you didn't really know who he was either..

[Alkapwn]

So as an example.
I'm raiding RK , There's an AO defender there. He gets destroyed. AO toon logs off returns with a different AO toon to defend RK. Venge log or not?

I ran this by two DM's on seperate occasions in game both of them said either "they didn't care." or "Its not considered vengelogging". Although i know at one time it was because i got 2 24hr bans for it back when i played in AO.

I relize its alot of admining to keep track of that sort of stuff with multi-logging and shared logins. It still needs to be solidly clarified. This sort of logging happens on a daily basis and almost every relic defense scenario these days.

[Rufio]

Honestly I can't keep track of what is legal and what isn't anymore. I just do whatever I want as long as it seems reasonable.

For instance, the other day I was defending TC with an NC toon. I stopped a raider running away with a relic and took it, but we realized that all 3 of the defending toons at the time were NC, so I dropped the relic and logged a TC toon to cap it really fast with the intent of returning to the NC toon after finishing. As I was carrying the relic, a few raiders ran in and started attacking me, so I capped the relic, then fought back. After a somewhat extended battle, I eventually died and relogged my original NC toon to pick back up where I was before capping the relic.

I had no idea if what I did was legal, and I didn't see anything inherently wrong about it at the time, though it seems like it might violate rule V. Oh well, I don't think anyone should have been too upset. The other option was to just hide it somewhere, which is kind of annoying for raiders.

[Amoenotep]

what is and isn't legal is in the commandments and has pretty much been the same for years

[Rufio]

what is and isn't legal is in the commandments and has pretty much been the same for years

Which is the same amount of time it has been confusing

[Rufio]

Seriously though, this is confusing.

V - Thou shalt not relog any character to exact revenge on a lost PvP fight, whether higher or lower in level than your original character. In the case of defending your faction city, this will be allowed if you do not change the faction of your original character. Relogging a character is not allowed in order to raise fallen comrades if the area around the bodies is still in the midst of active PvP involving the same players that killed you or your party.

So, I am in game, and say I am leveling a NC toon, and TC is getting raided. Lets say this is my first NC toon, or my other NC toons have been scrapped for various reasons. I want to help defend my allies, and I have a few TC toons in melencia set up to defend. I can't relog because I am switching factions? What if I am building outside of my guild faction for whatever reason? I can't relog to help my guild defend?

I'm sorry, but that sucks, I am going to break this rule every single time without hesitation. It would take 4 40's to cover every defense relog situation assuming you are even leveling within your normal faction/ally system. For TC/NC it would be 1 TC and 1 NC in both melencia and daeron. I don't even have that many 40's geared up right now. I may be able to suit another toon up that I haven't used in a long time and cover that, but it gives me no flexibility as to what I can log. For a new player, it pretty much screws them.

VI - Thou shalt not relog any character during a relic raid, except to relog a defender character, unless a period of 30 minutes has passed since your last attempt with your original character. This includes any character involved in the transportation of relics.

This one is really confusing in particular.

So what constitutes an "attempt" with your original character? What am I attempting? Attempting to raid? Attempting to defend? Attempting to kill ogres on the mountain? Attempting to learn how to juggle? Well I've never attempted that with a character, so I guess I can relog whenever I want.

And how is the "original character" defined? The one you were leveling before the raid happened? The one you were attacking the enemy cradle with? Another toon that you were using to defend your cradle with?

If I log a defender can I go back to my "original character" before 30 minutes since he last attempt at whatever it is he was attempting? I don't want to have to stand around for 30 minutes if I am able to fight off a raid in a few minutes, that is boring. Can I relog another defender if I was already defending with another toon? Can I relog between defenders freely?

[BlkMamba]

Only thing that really changed is the raiding part.....

If your Defending TC with an NC toon, and you relog to a different NC toon your fine
If you SWITCH to a TC toon then your stuck to TC toons for the duration, UNLESS the raiders goto NC or they dont return for 30 mins
this hasnt changed and has been in place for sometime

what has changed....
When your raiding, you raid with your NC toon to Gargoth, and now you want to goto sleeth, you MUST use the SAME NC toon to do this
you cannot use another NC toon or TC toon, Unless a 30 min period has passed even if it was uncontested

Let a DM correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe this is what they are saying easiest explained by example

[Bargeld]

You're going crazy now... it's pretty cut and dry to me, and I thought tep managed to put it pretty clearly in the early parts of this thread, with me restating it in other terms:

ally faction is held to 30min rule

same faction chars are relog as needed.

'you can defend your faction with any same faction toon'
and...
'if you defend as a non-factional toon, but instead as an ally, then you must stick with that SAME allied faction toon and cannot swap to another allied faction toon.'
Also could be said as...
'you can defend your faction with any same faction toon, and one single allied faction toon and swap between those at any time.'

The toon you are out leveling has nothing to do with it because it is not involved at all, in any way, with relics.
Raiding is defined as entering an enemy faction territory with or without touching the relic. (if you were to lose gp on PK, you are in enemy territory). I'm sure this one could be argued up and down, and there are some other questionable loopholes that I could think of, but the chances that these questionable situations will arise are next to nil and are fine being left to DM decision.

[Bargeld]

If your Defending TC with an NC toon, and you relog to a different NC toon your fine
If you SWITCH to a TC toon then your stuck to TC toons for the duration, UNLESS the raiders goto NC or they dont return for 30 mins
this hasnt changed and has been in place for sometime

I believe this is incorrect. Per tep, see above...

what has changed....
When your raiding, you raid with your NC toon to Gargoth, and now you want to goto sleeth, you MUST use the SAME NC toon to do this
you cannot use another NC toon or TC toon, Unless a 30 min period has passed even if it was uncontested

This has always been the case, and most everyone understood it... the 'uncontested or not' part is what was clarified.

[Amoenotep]

tc can relog tc chars all day long in defense

nc can relog nc chars all day long for defense

tc can't relog tc chars in nc or its venge log

[Alkapwn]

If your Defending TC with an NC toon, and you relog to a different NC toon your fine
If you SWITCH to a TC toon then your stuck to TC toons for the duration, UNLESS the raiders goto NC or they dont return for 30 mins
this hasnt changed and has been in place for sometime

I believe this is incorrect. Per tep, see above...

Hehe yeah i've been banned twice for defending with allied toons and warned twice by Brando and Boccob. I think Gorm even instakilled me for it. Apparantly the same rules don't apply in RK? jk

what has changed....
When your raiding, you raid with your NC toon to Gargoth, and now you want to goto sleeth, you MUST use the SAME NC toon to do this
you cannot use another NC toon or TC toon, Unless a 30 min period has passed even if it was uncontested

This has always been the case, and most everyone understood it... the 'uncontested or not' part is what was clarified.

I was always under the assumption that "Area of Contest" was the only criteria for VengeLogging .
e.g. I get killed in TC with toon A . I log out defeated and join my guys in RK with toon B to continue pvping. Although Toon B would not be able to show his face in TC for the alotted 30mins. In no way is that breaking any commandments. Although in some cases it would definitly be vengelogging such as running down runaway raiders with non-faction toons...or would it? Running away is considered defeat is it not?

Mamba of all people should know this. I think he's just goofin to get a rise lol

tc can relog tc chars all day long in defense

nc can relog nc chars all day long for defense

tc can't relog tc chars in nc or its venge log

This is the way i've always understood it but unfortunately it's not being enforced at all.... and i'm way to lazy to be watching and SSing logins and toon signon/outs while i'm trying to have a good time .