Need help with first "serious" build

[Rufio]

oh, and I just realized that you are not a monk and are not using a shield. epic dodge or not you won't last very long without one. drop ambi and twf feats and use a shield, you should get a decent AC that way. Going shieldless is really only good for monks and suicidal str based pure barbarian and pure fighter types that have a terrible ac anyway, but the HP and damage reduction to take the hits.

[Cyrian]

Rufio, I was just going over a few things that don't seem right, and it's apparent that I can't even pick up all the feats I need unless i just go for 1h rapier and shield. I'm starting to realize that if I want to go TWF and still have a decent AB I'll need to take ranger levels instead of fighter. Something like 16rog/8ranger/16wm.

[frogofpeace]

YEah, this is not a good way to go if you want 2 weapon fighting as a feature of the build. 2wf is not the be all and end all though - you're generally better off taking care of weaknesses first. Ftr/wm/rog can be very, very solid, however, with the suggestions above. It likely won't be an uber kill everything by itself build, but with cleric and bard support, very tough.

[Rufio]

I don't normally do this, I like letting other people build

but anyway, I got everything to fit.

Rogue(13), Fighter(20), Weapon Master(7), Tiefling

STR: 8
DEX: 20 (30)
CON: 14
WIS: 12
INT: 14
CHA: 6

Tiefling: (Quick to Master)
01: Rogue(1): Two-Weapon Fighting, Ambidexterity
02: Fighter(1): Weapon Finesse
03: Fighter(2): Weapon Proficiency Exotic, Dodge
04: Fighter(3): DEX+1, (DEX=21)
05: Fighter(4): Mobility
06: Fighter(5): Expertise
07: Fighter(6): Spring Attack
08: Fighter(7): DEX+1, (DEX=22)
09: Fighter(8): Weapon Focus: Kukri, Whirlwind Attack
10: Fighter(9)
11: Rogue(2): {Evasion}
12: Rogue(3): DEX+1, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, {Uncanny Dodge I}, (DEX=23)
13: Rogue(4)
14: Weapon Master(1): Weapon of Choice: Kukri
15: Weapon Master(2): Improved Critical: Kukri
16: Weapon Master(3): DEX+1, (DEX=24)
17: Weapon Master(4)
18: Weapon Master(5): Blind Fight
19: Weapon Master(6)
20: Weapon Master(7): DEX+1, (DEX=25)
21: Fighter(10): Epic Skill Focus: Discipline, Epic Weapon Focus: Kukri
22: Fighter(11)
23: Fighter(12): Armor Skin
24: Fighter(13): DEX+1, Epic Will, (DEX=26)
25: Fighter(14): Epic Prowess
26: Fighter(15)
27: Fighter(16): Epic Fortitude, Weapon Specialization: Kukri
28: Fighter(17): DEX+1, (DEX=27)
29: Fighter(18): Epic Weapon Specialization: Kukri
30: Fighter(19): Blinding Speed
31: Rogue(5)
32: Rogue(6): DEX+1, (DEX=28)
33: Rogue(7): Knockdown
34: Rogue(8)
35: Rogue(9)
36: Rogue(10): DEX+1, Improved Expertise, Improved Evasion, (DEX=29)
37: Rogue(11)
38: Rogue(12)
39: Rogue(13): Epic Dodge, Defensive Roll
40: Fighter(20): DEX+1, Improved Knockdown, (DEX=30)

Hitpoints: 428
Skillpoints: 311
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 25/21/32
Saving Throw bonuses: Spells: +4, Traps: +2
BAB: 29
AB (max, naked): 44 (melee), 40 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 30/33
Spell Casting:
Alignment Changes: 0

Concentration 43(45), Discipline 43(52), Intimidate 4(2), Listen 42(43), Open Lock 11(21), Spellcraft 21(23), Spot 42(43), Tumble 42(52), UMD 42(40)



I would still steer away from twf since you aren't a monk and you will need the shield ac and damage reduction, which would free up 3 more feats for great fortitude, iron will, and epic skill focus: spot, and 1 more feat if you use a rapier for something like luck of heroes or skill focus in discipline or spot.

I moved around the level progression, but that wasn't really necessary. Since I ended up taking pre-epic feats in epic levels, some fighter feats could be moved to pre-epic. 13 fighter 7 WM pre-epic would be preferable for more fortitude and 1 more ab. Skill points aren't an issue, so you should be ok without the bonus points from taking rogue at level 1.

[Cyrian]

Thanks for cleaning that up for me. I decided TWF is better left for the SD builds and rangers etc. Weapon master would definitely make good use of it, but it sounds like most melee builds here have to shield-crutch if they don't want to get insta-gibbed on the daily. But I will if I must!

I think the answer to this build is to strike a better balance between ftr/rog/wm levels. The build Rufio cleaned up can obviously fit TWF in, but the AB is still lacking. 25 wm levels seems a bit overdone too. Trying 16rog/8ftr/16wm next, with rapier WoC and no twf. (thanks to burra).

[Face_of_Bo]

If you want a TWF toon that would have high ac without a shield and high ab despite the TWF -2 penalty, I would suggest 6 monk, 12 fighter, 22 WM. The wisdom bonus to ac from monk and the +5 to ab from 22 WM levels takes care of both areas. Use a Githzerai for the +4 dodge bonus, free weapon finesse feat and SR. Put your skill points in discipline, tumble and spellcraft. By all means take epic skill focus discipline and blind fight and blinding speed and epic will, all are essential.Dual wield SS, or kukris or light hammers (SS is my favorite but the others are also good). The WM levels will also give you four bonus feats and the monks levels will give you cleave, evasion, deflect arrows, still mind, purity of body, and improved knockdown for free. I used str, con, dex and wis books on this toon and it is very effective in a variety of situations with high ac, high ab, and good saves.

[Face_of_Bo]

Further comment on this suggested build. You would want to make it in the Circle where the jobs give a permanent +1 to dex and +1 to wisdom as well as a temporary (twice a day) +1 to dex and +1 to wisdom, not to mention the additional 1d4, 1d6, or 1d8 elemental damage to your weapon (depends on current level).

[Shadowalker]

Further comment on this suggested build. You would want to make it in the Circle where the jobs give a permanent +1 to dex and +1 to wisdom as well as a temporary (twice a day) +1 to dex and +1 to wisdom, not to mention the additional 1d4, 1d6, or 1d8 elemental damage to your weapon (depends on current level).

Plus as a member of TC you get to run arround with Twig.. and thats one step from Nirvana

[Nyeleni]

If Nirvana is near the next Asylum for lunatics, that should be about right .

For twf builds, CoT monk with cleric or paladin is very effective too.

[Ryddwillow]

best toon to build on a new server is a fighter, go sub classes like giz or earth or if you dont want the ecl negatives go dwarf. At lvl 21 you get pure fighter bonuses and make sure you max out disc. Later in lvls you get better feats and go strength because going dex you will die quicker then a str. toon.

Build a cleric with some fighter in it to get disc or other wise you will be fodder.