Dual Logging

[MasterYoda]

You really only need commonsene really. Its not vengence id you tried to pk someone with there high lvl friend right next to them. Other player or not .... dual logging .... it doesnt matter. Its really just common sense

Okay, let's apply that "common sense" to other things. Can you vote twice? Can you hold two jobs at the same exact time? Can you have two SSNs? Was Aragorn in LoTR also Legolas? Is schizophrenia a legitmate legal defense?

To go down this path a bit further, why not get two PCs, each with triple monitor display cards, and do an HoD run all by your lonesome? Why not have your own guild comprised of multiple incarnations of yourself?

Once upon a time, back in the days of the Model A and Model T, I suspect there were no laws on the books concerning vehicular homicide. There are now. Can you guess why?

Voting is held to the person ... there social security number if u will ( us example )

so buy buying multiple coppies of ns u now have multiple cd keys. Cdkeys are esentially the social security number of aplayer. Its used to ID you , lLocate u , and once your dead ( banned ) its useless in that realm.

2 cd keys means 2 people.

I have 4 cpus at my house and 4 people who play. Just cause i dual log doeasnt mean that there isnt 4 people who play ... it juts means i play 2 more often.

[TheStoneOne]

This issue is a real tough one at times because as others have noted we the players generally cannot tell (100%) if its jimbo and his housemate playing THIS time or jimbo and jimbo playing.

PPL say u can tell by cd keys and ip adresses and access records if your a dm but as loki points out all it takes is for you to say wasnt me was my house mate a friend or even my dog a shread of doubt and the DM's cannot convict which is fair enough:-)

this issue cannot and will never be resolved we just have to live with it and it the duel logging thing has been abused by players before im not saying that everyone who duel logs is a rule breaker but it certainly has happened.

There is no answer its just time to move on respawn and go on your way this is one issue to just "let it go"

[MasterYoda]

Just a quick question out there ? How many of u do dual log?

there is no rule against it ... no has anyone used it as an exploit ...

so since ther is no problem stop beating a dead horse.

Psople who dual log ( me included ) know its and advantage and a privledge. DMs could be more strict about it and start kicking dual loogers and such but in reality dual logers arnt doing anything wrong.

Alot of this is being grought on by people who cant or wont dual log.

so what i play 2 toons ... and when i do something wrong ss it like i know u will and take it to the dms.

the dms staff is great and will watch it and go over the situation.

and if anyone has a problem with dual logging then go get another CPU and another copy of nwn and dual log your self.

Good Hunting everyone.

[Lorkar1]

The only problem I saw in the past was when before Reflections went live and the server was always full. Other than that who cares. I don't see it any differently than if 2 people were playing in the same room or using teamspeak, except for the fact running two toons at the same time effectively is not so easy.

[mgrjebbo]

who is jimbo? random name? blah all this talk not enough death.

[Gornickthy]

The only problem I saw in the past was when before Reflections went live and the server was always full. Other than that who cares. I don't see it any differently than if 2 people were playing in the same room or using teamspeak, except for the fact running two toons at the same time effectively is not so easy.

Thats the only time I had any issue with it also. A full server was a pain, but seeing dual loggers on actually was annoying to say the least. Since it isn't really an issue any more I don't see a problem with it.

I started the thread out of curiosity. I have been playing with the idea of dual logging and I simply wanted to know some of the rules and insights on it. I am still not sure if I am going to do it or not, but the input here has been helpful. Thanks.

[Kurth]

As Amoenotep said (or alluded to), this used to be a -huge- -astronomical- problem.
The difference between venge and dual logging is simple.

Dual logging is defensive, period. It is simply eye for an eye. 1 x 1. If there are multiple toons attacking your LowBie treat it as a mob. 1 mob (your low and high) x 1 mob (the player attacking you). No chasing, no corpse camping, no trapping. Simple.

The line is crosed to venge logging for two simple reasons.

1) The moment it becomes more than an eye for an eye. 1 x 1 or 1 mob x 1 mob.

or

2) When you relog from the same account and Pk your assailant.

Both are Griefing, plain and simple.

This server does have a strong PVP setup, so the lines are blurred sometimes blurred. However, the DM's know the vets. Vets who grief new players are often caught. They know the trouble makers, they know when they normally log, and they know 90% of their toons. Its as simple as looking at the IP on the connection log.

(They also know which vets who "dual log right." Tunneling, Spoofing, Rerouting, etc becomes obvious, especially for how long most the vets have been here.)

Anyway, my $1.50. Back to work.

[npasher]

Having partied with someone dual logging recently, I have to say that I am impressed with the difficulty of running two toons at once. I can barely keep one of mine alive...

[TheStoneOne]

Yeah jimbo was a random name, 1st one that came into my head jimbo jones lol no one out there duel logging is called jimbo or jim or jimmy are they?? if you are im sorry 100% coincidence.

[MLoki]

there is no rule against it ... no has anyone used it as an exploit ...

so since ther is no problem stop beating a dead horse.

Unfortunatly, some people have used this as an exploit. What I was getting at was I have witnessed Dual Logging Revenge Logging where it was obvious one person was playing both characters and was a known Dual Logger. I killed one login so another login suddenly logged on and came to my location. The two logins attacked and I noticed only one of the two logins would persue or take actions at a time. Either the "friend" that was helping was really slow or that it was one person controlling both PCs. However, their is no way to prove this, so I do consider this an exploit of being able to dual log.

MLoki

[MasterYoda]

there is no rule against it ... no has anyone used it as an exploit ...

so since ther is no problem stop beating a dead horse.

Unfortunatly, some people have used this as an exploit. What I was getting at was I have witnessed Dual Logging Revenge Logging where it was obvious one person was playing both characters and was a known Dual Logger. I killed one login so another login suddenly logged on and came to my location. The two logins attacked and I noticed only one of the two logins would persue or take actions at a time. Either the "friend" that was helping was really slow or that it was one person controlling both PCs. However, their is no way to prove this, so I do consider this an exploit of being able to dual log.

MLoki

Only one was taking actions at a time? Well thats a bad dual logger then XD

[BlkMamba]

Well controling 2 toons at 1 time, something i cant say i've actually try'd, i have logged 2 toons on to raise one of my lower lvl's on occation, and my wife does sometimes log my other account on and play one of my other toons while i'm on, which i see no harm in either of those instances and i'm sure others have done the same. This topic has been beat'n, bashed and drug threw the Halls many times in the past, i guess if you have enough aptitude to control 2 toons at 1 time, your better than me. But i see no point in where this thread is going anymore, its the same responces over and over again, i see no harm or exploits with the exception if the servers full that would be the time to think about logging 1 out if you are dual logged playing 2 pc's other than that i do believe this thread has really no value left.

[Gornickthy]

Well, there is obviously some points still to be made since you posted in the thread and people continue to do so. I think this thread has actually been rather tame all in all and everyone voiced their opinions rather well. The difficulties have been discussed, the pros, the cons, the exploits, and basically what is frowned upon and what is not. So over all I am quite happy with how this thread turned out, and I appreciate everyone's time and input into this topic. I am glad this did not turn into a flame war which it could have easily have done.

[Poet]

Voting is held to the person ... there social security number if u will ( us example )

so buy buying multiple coppies of ns u now have multiple cd keys. Cdkeys are esentially the social security number of aplayer. Its used to ID you , lLocate u , and once your dead ( banned ) its useless in that realm.
2 cd keys means 2 people.

I have 4 cpus at my house and 4 people who play. Just cause i dual log doeasnt mean that there isnt 4 people who play ... it juts means i play 2 more often.

I agree that there is no way to tell who is playing which login when there are several behind a router, but the point that you made (which I highlighted in yellow) is exactly the problem that has been arising.

The DMs find it fit to ban someone and all the player does is get another cdkey and log back in with a new login. It is a very simple process and it becomes evident that it is the banned player either by his mouth (shouts) or his playstyle(grudge against certain players ect.)

So essentially even though it is a rule that is a bannable offense, the disruptive players know their ways around it and disrespect everyone on the server by doing just as I stated.

[MasterYoda]

im gonna say this as un biased as possible.

I do have 4 people who play in my house. I did get banned. I did comply. IN fact i was playing when i tried to Dual log my kst toons to level them and realized my laptop was getting auto booted.

as soon as i was done talking to netrom i logged off and im complied.

ok so tiny plays like me .... u play like loki ....

I know a few couples who play like each other and who i cant tell the difference from one to another.

ok so in theroy since tiny was me ... then if loki does something wrong we should punish u right? if loki is banned you shouldnt be able to play right?
thats just silly.

mabey im right and i didnt play and i didnt do anything wrong and i am totally complying wiht the rules.

mabey im not. but thats for people with a DM stamp to decide. not anyone else .... them.

and i can assure you ... i am probably the tightest with CHASE and he has booted me when others dms have laughted ... hes told me to shut up over shout. he was the one who banned me the first time when i logged in after my temp ban. so before you even think there is favoritism .. you should think 2wice ... cause if i remember corectly the reason i was banned in the first place was cause of how i treated you guys.

No flame there just stating facts.

Havok