How to become a Purist
Re: How to become a Purist
I, on the other hand, disagree with a lot of the opinions here. I think pure class bonuses should be restricted to pure builds. I don't know anything about pallies, so I just won't go there. But I have 2 pure fighters and 2 pure barbs... so I have some experience with them
I would guess that fighter is the single most used multiclass across all my toons. In it's pure form, typically fighters only have a few flavors. You have a stunner, a str based 2H with a monster token that flattens everyone, or you have an expertise, high AC and super-buffable dexer. As a multiclass, it's basically shield weap & armor profs, hitting 16 BAB or better, the most feats, & decent HP.
I've used barb as a dip for 2 builds. Pure class, the barb equates to a few flavors that can be interchangable: high DI/DR for both physical and elemental, usually 2H due to it's ability to really max the damage out, the best HP you can get, and the roar of coarse. There are a few racial trick combos out there too, because of the con base. As a multiclass, you still get the rage... so dipping 17 or 14 or something can still be useful (even when mixing with caster, it can free up a couple of lvl 2 or 3 slots). Str and con boost as a free action, multiple times daily is really nice. You get the base weap and shield profs (often mixed with clc as multiclass, you get plate and shield anyway, but you still get weaps). 16 BAB or better, uncanny dodge, and even some basic barb DR for 1,2, even 3 points.
I group bard and rogue together on my list of 'useless pure crap'. I've tried a number of times to plan and build a pure bard, but I just get bored. You fill up all the feats with the stuff you ABSOLUTELY need, like epic disc, maybe taunt, concentration, like you take everything you want. Then you STILL have 4 or 5 epic feats available. At this point, I'm taking epic energy resist or something nice, but really not a defined flavor. To me every bard is the same deep down, with some really soft personal choices for feats on top. Rogue, pffft. Basically you are trading an extra 5d6 sneak for no disc, 3 base attacks, the crappiest saves ever, and the ability to scroll (which you can do with 5 rogue, or numerous other classes). There's no point in a pure rogue right now.
You might ask 'What *should* happen, oh knowledgeable and wise Bargeld?' To me the answer is simple, leave it alone. If you feel the need to add another possible build out there, by all means, figure out how to purify a rogue, but we aren't lacking without it. Seems like development for development's sake, opening the use of more time and effort on a new project, rather than working on something existing (cough stun fist nerf cough).
Just my un-erring $.02
I would guess that fighter is the single most used multiclass across all my toons. In it's pure form, typically fighters only have a few flavors. You have a stunner, a str based 2H with a monster token that flattens everyone, or you have an expertise, high AC and super-buffable dexer. As a multiclass, it's basically shield weap & armor profs, hitting 16 BAB or better, the most feats, & decent HP.
I've used barb as a dip for 2 builds. Pure class, the barb equates to a few flavors that can be interchangable: high DI/DR for both physical and elemental, usually 2H due to it's ability to really max the damage out, the best HP you can get, and the roar of coarse. There are a few racial trick combos out there too, because of the con base. As a multiclass, you still get the rage... so dipping 17 or 14 or something can still be useful (even when mixing with caster, it can free up a couple of lvl 2 or 3 slots). Str and con boost as a free action, multiple times daily is really nice. You get the base weap and shield profs (often mixed with clc as multiclass, you get plate and shield anyway, but you still get weaps). 16 BAB or better, uncanny dodge, and even some basic barb DR for 1,2, even 3 points.
I group bard and rogue together on my list of 'useless pure crap'. I've tried a number of times to plan and build a pure bard, but I just get bored. You fill up all the feats with the stuff you ABSOLUTELY need, like epic disc, maybe taunt, concentration, like you take everything you want. Then you STILL have 4 or 5 epic feats available. At this point, I'm taking epic energy resist or something nice, but really not a defined flavor. To me every bard is the same deep down, with some really soft personal choices for feats on top. Rogue, pffft. Basically you are trading an extra 5d6 sneak for no disc, 3 base attacks, the crappiest saves ever, and the ability to scroll (which you can do with 5 rogue, or numerous other classes). There's no point in a pure rogue right now.
You might ask 'What *should* happen, oh knowledgeable and wise Bargeld?' To me the answer is simple, leave it alone. If you feel the need to add another possible build out there, by all means, figure out how to purify a rogue, but we aren't lacking without it. Seems like development for development's sake, opening the use of more time and effort on a new project, rather than working on something existing (cough stun fist nerf cough).
Just my un-erring $.02
Death Dealers ::DD::
Laufer - Gemetzel - Force - Little Fist - Egil - Torture - Hatshepsu - Nemesis - Hierophant - Supernaut - Flesh Hound - Insurrection - Antithesis - Dead of Winter - Volcanus 2000
Laufer - Gemetzel - Force - Little Fist - Egil - Torture - Hatshepsu - Nemesis - Hierophant - Supernaut - Flesh Hound - Insurrection - Antithesis - Dead of Winter - Volcanus 2000
Re: How to become a Purist
Rogue love
Sneak damage =attackers dice - defenders dice = the dice you get to roll for damage. Done!
Sneak damage =attackers dice - defenders dice = the dice you get to roll for damage. Done!
Re: How to become a Purist
Keep in mind that I was talking about multiclassing with 21+ fighter/barbarian/paladin levels. I've designed many builds with fighter or paladin as a 5-15 level dip class, but using it as your main class is just unheard of. Barbarian is similar, but even low level dips are very rare.
For perspective, there are ~250 build threads on the TC/NC guild forums and 0 multiclassed builds with 21+ fighter, paladin or barbarian levels. There is also only 1 multiclassed barbarian build.
For perspective, there are ~250 build threads on the TC/NC guild forums and 0 multiclassed builds with 21+ fighter, paladin or barbarian levels. There is also only 1 multiclassed barbarian build.
Sebastian (TSS) Doc - Rufio of (TSS) - Dagr (TSS)
Raijin {FoN} - Arcadia {FoN} - Geb {FoN}
Raijin {FoN} - Arcadia {FoN} - Geb {FoN}
Re: How to become a Purist
Also for perspective: There's one barbarian build, it just has optional amounts of str and con.
Bargeld wrote:Overall, I think most would agree that a pure rogue is probably the worst build on the server.
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Re: How to become a Purist
i have a pure rogue...its Hogre str based uses a scythe. who cares about saves when your doing 30d6 sneak attacks with a scythe!
Re: How to become a Purist
Or you could have a hogre with 25d6 with full disc & sc, more hp, better saves, maybe a lil self buffing, etc.
Death Dealers ::DD::
Laufer - Gemetzel - Force - Little Fist - Egil - Torture - Hatshepsu - Nemesis - Hierophant - Supernaut - Flesh Hound - Insurrection - Antithesis - Dead of Winter - Volcanus 2000
Laufer - Gemetzel - Force - Little Fist - Egil - Torture - Hatshepsu - Nemesis - Hierophant - Supernaut - Flesh Hound - Insurrection - Antithesis - Dead of Winter - Volcanus 2000
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Re: How to become a Purist
Not in NC, you couldn't
Three years of nursery school and you think you know it all.
- Dr. Michael Hfuhruhurr
- Dr. Michael Hfuhruhurr
Re: How to become a Purist
or ab, or ac, or discipline, or buffs, or haste, or disables, or ranged attacks...Amoenotep wrote:who cares about saves
Sebastian (TSS) Doc - Rufio of (TSS) - Dagr (TSS)
Raijin {FoN} - Arcadia {FoN} - Geb {FoN}
Raijin {FoN} - Arcadia {FoN} - Geb {FoN}
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Re: How to become a Purist
sneak attacks=who cares about ac...your flat footed and i do 200+ extra damage
you guys need to think fun.....why so serious?
you guys need to think fun.....why so serious?
Re: How to become a Purist
how are you going to make anyone flatfooted? I'm all about fun builds, but they have to not totally suck too.
Protip: sneak attacks when flanking does not make the enemy flatfooted, you are still attacking against their normal AC
Protip: sneak attacks when flanking does not make the enemy flatfooted, you are still attacking against their normal AC
Sebastian (TSS) Doc - Rufio of (TSS) - Dagr (TSS)
Raijin {FoN} - Arcadia {FoN} - Geb {FoN}
Raijin {FoN} - Arcadia {FoN} - Geb {FoN}
Re: How to become a Purist
I think tep is referring to his single attack at the beginning of the round that he will get while hidden (because he has 15 bab and no haste). His second and then third attacks will be vs full ac, and he will have probably 45 ab. A single attack with a 5 or 10% chance of a 200+ crit (depending if you took imp crit).
I'd rather have a WM with 81 ab hitting 400 on a crit, 15 or 20% of the time and 5x a round... oh wait, I already do
Did someone mention crap saves? Yeaaahhh...
I'd rather have a WM with 81 ab hitting 400 on a crit, 15 or 20% of the time and 5x a round... oh wait, I already do
Did someone mention crap saves? Yeaaahhh...
Death Dealers ::DD::
Laufer - Gemetzel - Force - Little Fist - Egil - Torture - Hatshepsu - Nemesis - Hierophant - Supernaut - Flesh Hound - Insurrection - Antithesis - Dead of Winter - Volcanus 2000
Laufer - Gemetzel - Force - Little Fist - Egil - Torture - Hatshepsu - Nemesis - Hierophant - Supernaut - Flesh Hound - Insurrection - Antithesis - Dead of Winter - Volcanus 2000
Re: How to become a Purist
Pure rogue is fine. How many people do tep or ghost need to slaughter with mundane daggers/arrows to prove that? Obviously mixing with other stuff will make it better still. Rogues only care about crits insofar as what you're going to gak isn't crit immune and thus sneak immune.
Fighter alone can do stun which mixes can do way better.
Barb alone at least has a feat(s) to hook into, I'd have preferred just messing with those and slapping on the lackluster epic feats for free in the teens then scale them higher if still pure barb.
Pali didn't need much more, same with BG. Certainly not DWD or CoT
Fighter alone can do stun which mixes can do way better.
Barb alone at least has a feat(s) to hook into, I'd have preferred just messing with those and slapping on the lackluster epic feats for free in the teens then scale them higher if still pure barb.
Pali didn't need much more, same with BG. Certainly not DWD or CoT
Tep wrote:I login and there's a dwarf to kill. You can't ask for much more than that.
Alkapwn wrote:NC has the most amazing melee build there is. Its a friggin unstopable juggernaut of pain.
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Re: How to become a Purist
lol..remember when i was using that pure rogue and killing players with those see invis daggers? good times...good times