The logic of men.... (boys)

[randdo]

Yes.. The logic of men (boys) completely escapes me. Yet I do find it both interesting and entertaining as to how some people think and speak in a manor to try an justify their actions.

What I am speaking of is wether or not one should heal during a PvP battle. Some would argue "Yes" while others would argue "No". Some time long ago, way way back when NS4 was capped at 25 pc levels, I was given the "No" side of the argument after I had healed during combat. The explanation was simple. If one heals during PvP combat it no long came down to a PC's build, gear and skill, but became a match of "who has the most heal potions". So I have always abided by the No side, because it just made sense. It was, to say, very logical. from the moment I heard the No explanation I have never healed during combat wether I'm up against 1 or 15 other players. UNLESS, they start to use heal potions first or the combat with that person(s) is over.

Last eve, while raiding, I got to witness the Yes side of the argument. Fortunately it was only one person on the "other team" that believed in the "Yes" side of the healing argument during combat. The only time this person did not heal was when he got mobs by "us". I guess he found it pointless to try because of getting hit to many times and so fast.

BTW, I bore both personal witness and experience to the "Yes" side of the argument of this healing issue last eve.

Strangely enough, the healing began before any Time Stop was cast. The reason I bring this up and this is where the logic begins to escape me completely, is that the use of Time Stop was the argument use to justify the use of healing potions. The words went something like this: "you guys used Time Stop so I use heal potions".

It was seen that someone on the opposing team was using healing potions during PvP combat, the order was given that we too should do the same thing.

This argument got taken into the shout channel (much later on) where I was utterly entertained by the logic used to justify the use of healing potions.

During this raid, being one of the lower leveled PC, I got assassin stunned on more than one occasion. Was rather funny watching my character sway to and fro while getting the be-geebers knock out of me until I died or until I was rescued from certain death by my team mates attacking the assassin. I was also stunned a few times by one of their many monks, until death. Yet their assassins and the monks, not one, used heals, therefore, nor did I when in direct combat with them. I had a blast, as I am sure those who PK'd while stunned had a blast doing it as well.

Back to the ensuing argument that took place on Shout and the justification of the use of heals because Time Stopped was used. If one could get really silly here and expand on the argument a little. No, lets expand on it a Lot.

Just for the sake of agrument using the excuse used about Time Stop to justify healing during combat. Lets say I happen to agree with that logic. If Time Stop is used, heal away. OR we could outlaw Time Stop and one would presume that the person who healed during combat would no longer use heal potions right up until he would get stunned by an assassin's skill. So now we ban Assassin's and any weapon that stuns. Next, I dare say the excuse would be "Well your druid uses Stone Hold", now lets ban Druids.

If this is not to your taste, how about we all forget about outlawing Time Stop and banning assassins etc. . Instead we can all run around on raids with a couple of cleric design for and have bards, rogues with UMD all use a whole bunch of scrolls of Mass Heal/Heals and Heal Potions. Instead of seeing who dies we can all see what team can heal the most.

Can you see why using the arguement about Time Stop verse using Heal potions and the logic used escaped me?

I play female characters in game, because I am female. When I get into PvP situation, if I am to die because the person I am up against has the higher level character, the better more powerful build, more skill and experience than I have I don't heal unless... (see above). I take my beating like a girl and die.

CAN YOU??

[MLoki]

Honestly, the logical connection between Healing kits/pots and Timestop goes back to the same logic as you originally mentioned. Who has more Healing Kits/Pots or who has more Time Crystals. I find that other expendables follow the same rule as healing kits. It doesn't prove your build but it becomes more about how much stuff can you can collect or buy.

I have stated that I have no problems using up heals whenever I need to in relic defence and in last nights raiding I believe a used a total of 3 Potions between 2 characters. In a duel or 1v1 I may take a different stand because as you said healing doesn't prove your build but during relic defence I have nothing to prove and only relics to keep and will use any means to do so.

Perhaps one side did use heals but didn't the other side use raise scrolls to bring back thier fallen? And once raised did they not heal back up to full strength to fight again? When fighting an endless battle like this you have to weigh the difference between respawning, healing and being raised. Taking the respawn option is obviously the cheapest but sometimes more time consuming where healing is often times the most expensive depending on the availability of raise scrolls.

With the chaos that insued in this mass melee I fault noone for any choice they use in the heat of battle but when one side gets called out for using heals in combat I will point out the use of other expendables as well... They are all choices you make while in combat and in the long run all is fair in time of war.

MLoki

[Kirg]

Bah, I don't care much about healing during combat. Especially in a craddle raid. However in a plain duel I won't use it, I think not even if it is used on the other side...
And I don't care if they call me a *chug chug* either. I just run and deliver the relic .

[Trogdorbob]

yah you do chug the pots. But as I see it. The ones that call on " people healing during battle" have to define what kind of battle that is. Is it relic raiding or is it a PvP. I personally dont use heals as I think its a waste of money. But to those that do use them then dont be callin on others to say " what a crap build. Has to use heal pots" and what Mloki mentioned on the timestops, its the same idea. "what a crap build, has to rely on timestop to get anywhere." I said my speel in another thread. Relic raiding it seems to be that anything goes. Your defending or your attacking. You want to keep that relic at all costs. I understand that. But on PvP , im assuming its a different story. Last nights drama was almost enough to put me off the server for good. Lets keep the reminder that its s a game and DOH!!! some people already said that in another thread.

[mgrjebbo]

Its all a matter of personal prefrence, if you want to heal do it, if you dont dont.

But who has the right to tell another what he or she can or cannot do with their toon while in combat?

[Gornickthy]

I say let them heal away. They usually use all their heals and end up dead anyways. When a player was on a relic raid and was chugging heals against a HiPSing mage that was defending his excuse was "you are cheating so I am going to use heals." The laugh was when he was on the receiving end of a pk anyways (several times actually). If someone needs to use heals then there is no reason to get mad, it just allows for sweet justice in the end. I see using heals as a true sign of panic and weakness. Truly good players can only laugh at such tactics and finish the job with a smile and satisfaction that they were such a threat to begin with.

[Wolfarus]

As im feeling a tad grumpy right now, ill put a bit of bite into my response here

You felt the need to start your overly long-winded topic with the mention of "men - boys".....why, exactly? To perhaps point out in not-such-subtle fashion that yer female and want attention accordingly?

There, now im done being grumpy


The whole healing / pvp debate has been raging for quite a while now, and it wont ever go away. Most players that i know of(myself included) only use heal pots in pvp when it comes to relics, either raiding or defending. The only other time ill see if i can keep healthy thru healing long enough to be the victor is i REALLY want to see the other person dead and walking back to wherever it was the fight accured. Usually because he / she pk'd a friend of mine who didnt have the chance or even the ability to fight back, or because said person attacked me while i was out mob-hunting in a dangerous area, and thus could have cost me xp and gold

[JesterOI]

You felt the need to start your overly long-winded topic with the mention of "men - boys".....why, exactly?

Who cares?

Boys care.
Females care if it was "women - girls".
Men don't care.



During a relic raid, chug away.
During a duel, it's up to the agreement between combatants.

[MasterYoda]

why not use a 1 per minute ability with TS / pots of any type.

realisticly you shouldn't be able to fight and dfrinking potiens over and over again. you do have to go through yer bag then find em then open them then drink them. in RL u can't quickslot anything.

this will make there be a reason for healers again.

immagine u want to go on a raid. anywhere. and u can't chug potz..... oh look there is a cleric/ druid/ bard.

it will bring back what clerics were originally used for.

and it would stop all the complaining about the he healed, he tsed, wthpwdbbqsaucexors!!!

it would bring the actual roleplay of classes back to dnd

[JesterOI]

A 6 sec wait time between kd's would be great as well, just like the wait time between taunts.

[Wolfarus]

If a person is needing to use a heal pot every 6 secs or less, then whats the worry? He's prob not doing that much, if any offensive moves / damage, and as soon as he runs out of pots he's dead.

As for the time limited on Kd's...errr why? knocking a caster down is pretty much the only way to keep them within the damage radius of your char, assuming you're a fighter type. Unless you're an expertly built bow user, and i dont see that many of those running around..

[kingfatzo]

http://www.nsrealm.com/public/ns4/viewt ... light=heal

http://www.nsrealm.com/public/ns4/viewt ... light=heal

http://www.nsrealm.com/public/ns4/viewt ... t=heal+pvp

i must say the thrid link is a good logical statement....

ultimately it comes down to a players personal prefrence.

[-BannyD-]

do not compare timestop with assassin paralysis, KD, bigbys, stonehold....or frankly anything that has a SAVE and CAN be avoided.

[MasterYoda]

If a person is needing to use a heal pot every 6 secs or less, then whats the worry? He's prob not doing that much, if any offensive moves / damage, and as soon as he runs out of pots he's dead.

As for the time limited on Kd's...errr why? knocking a caster down is pretty much the only way to keep them within the damage radius of your char, assuming you're a fighter type. Unless you're an expertly built bow user, and i dont see that many of those running around..

ok now lets look at this realisticly

if u tried your absolute hardest to knowc someone down over and over again then u would be exauseted in RL. so the 6 sec timer is realistic.

now if u had a healer with u with sr then mage will try to focus on him leaving u open to wack away.

oh look mage is wning u.

o man here somes a maxed empowered heal from a cleric with heal domain

problem solved.

this realm is built on factions and team work.

you can't expect one build to dominate everything.

example. I see people in there 30s soloing ice giants.

me and kromix ( bard/cleric team) took ice giants at level 17.

cleared zons including all the bosses at level 21.

now I know some people are like hey that's cause u have experience or yeah I like to solo. but in reality if you want to solo there is a awesome (heavy sarasm ) 1 player mod u can play.

an back on topic if someone is spamming TS or heals yeah that means there going to die as soon as there done.

there are answers and ways around everything. you must look beyond your soloing aspect. Same reason AO is dominant on prime.

I have never come across a slave/dcn alone. they know its not a safe thing to do in a realm of turmoil.

[Gornickthy]

Indeed you have a point. Team work and working off of other party member's skills and strengths will make things go much smoother. There has been relic raids where one solo toon was able to successfully guard/defend the enterence because the raiding party did not organize. Had they combined forces then the solo defender would most generally fall, or at least be occupied enough as not to stop all the attackers.

Every build has strengths and weaknesses. It is the combination of toons, builds, and teamwork that is the true strength.