Barbs and the +12 limit

mgrjebbo · Post by **mgrjebbo** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:00 pm

I was courious how the Rage ability is treated when caculating the +12 limit on stat bonus.

It seems to me that since it is an ability and the main focus of the class it shouldnt play a part said caculations. Was wondering if it did or not, and if it does, would the devs or dms kindly have a look at it. It may need to be changed.

Post by **Amoenotep** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:08 pm

i believe all temporarty stat increases count to your +12, so your rage does also. just plan around it and you should do mostly ok.

it is an inconvienence, but i do believe that part is hard coded. since barbs don't get buffing spells and such, you can max your stats out easier than other classes without having to use spells.

CrazyJ · Post by **CrazyJ** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:12 pm

+8 STR gloves, and +7 CON belts are available... leaving only +4 str/+5 Con from other things... so the feats that boost rage to +6 or +8 str/con bonuses are useless.

Post by **Mr. O'Dearly** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:19 pm

Simple solution: add gloves that have less or no strength bonus and instead have bonuses to something else... discipline, regen, ac?

mgrjebbo · Post by **mgrjebbo** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:20 pm

yeah i just took mighty rage which gives +8 +8 str/con

so am i to belive that that epic feat was wasted?

i understand about the limit. it is nessicary for spell casters. However the barbs str is his str lol. The reason those feats are availble to him is so he can buff the crap out of himself. He has no ac just hit points and ab.

Is it hardcoded? because i have seen other servers where one stat or another has been buffed more than 12. Maybe it was some serious custom scripting. Something to think about when it comes time for barbs pure class bonus's perhaps? hopefully sooner than that.

Thank you for your response i just have a differing opinion is all. Now i am off to go loose some levels, what fun.

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:31 pm

The +12 limit is hardcoded...

But, Barb Rage is customizable in the same way spells are.

So, to change the rage so that it gives an AB bonus, DMG bonus, and HP bonus instead of STR and CON is completely possible and very simple for the devs to do as far as I know.

The barb's are suffering needlessly!

mgrjebbo · Post by **mgrjebbo** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:39 pm

good point jester..."cough" i never thought i would say that....j/k

how do the dms respond to that, would it be possible, to say make mighty rage instead of

str+8 Con+8 will save+*

turn it into

Str+6 Con+6 will save+* = equal to greater rage

then add +4 ab +4 ac +* temp hp bonus or something along those lines

that rounds like a reasonable compromise to me.

the ac wouldnt really make since because your loosing ac by using the ability, but i am sure we could come up with something else. maybe a disc skill bonus or something since your less likely to get knocked over if your chargin about. But something to make it worth is since it is one of the main barb epic feats. needs to be worth taking.

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:44 pm

Minimal STR and CON bonuses would still be good, +2 for each.

Have the AB and DMG bonus scale with level, like bardsong.

Taking Mighty Rage would give a further fixed bonus in addition to the scaling bonus from regular rage/greater rage.

This is quite possibly the perfect way to add bonuses for pure classed barb.

Post by **Amoenotep** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:45 pm

as stated somewhere in the vastness of the forums before, barbs are next for pure class bonuses. i'm sure logs of things will be discovered and thought of in this process.

kingfatzo · Post by **kingfatzo** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:53 pm

aye, another one of biowares "clunky iimplimentations" probably

just make use of ac/str gloves to give you the extra deflection ac.....and a +6con beholder belt w/ fort saves on it.

mgrjebbo · Post by **mgrjebbo** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:03 am

On a second note i am reading over the wikki and i am deeply trouble, you know what i am down right vexed.

It seems that every good feat availble to barbs epic wise has something wrong with it lol. Its not all NS4's fault some are hardwired issues. However i am courious why Devestating crit was removed.

The max dc on your save would be around what 44 or 45? if your str based that is. I was thinking to myself the other day why are almost all NS4 melee builds dexers? I have found my answer.

There is no reason to make a strength build. Anyway one could make a mage with a dc 45+ wail, a cleric with a dc 45+ implosion, have a finger attack that has a nice dc what round 40ish?

why cant a melee build have devastating crit? make it only availble to barbs and AA. just make it availble.

mgrjebbo · Post by **mgrjebbo** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:14 am

And another thing, whats the point in taking overwhelming crit? shouldnt that stack with devastating crit properties? i mean it is only common sense, why in the WORLD would you take this feat??? It seems that it gets worse for melee characters the farther i read.

Is everyone suppose to be a monk or a dexer theif on this server?

If balancing is the issue make the other classes better but dont nerf all the barb specific or non specific epic melee feats to make up for a casters short comings.

The following feats should be put back on the server IMO. Right now if my 20 lvl barb ran into my 20lvl dexer the barb would get slaughtered.

Devastating crit
overwhelming crit that stacks with all but wm crit bonus's
Thundering Rage that stacks with all but WM crit bonus's
Terrifying rage that has a base dice roll of d20 not d10- bioware sucks!

Oh and a side note damage reduction is only working at 3/- at 20th lvl pure barb.

*venting complete now starting cool down cycle*

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:21 am

Melees are fine. Try being useful as a mage after ice giants or amazons.

Post by **Amoenotep** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:23 am

if you had a dc 45 dev crit it wouldn't compare to a dc 45 implosion/wail. it would fire everytime you rolled a critical, which if you were rapier or kukri focused would be 4 or more times every round. anything without a hefty fort save would die in a few short rounds as this would fire continuously non stop. its too much power for a mere mortal to wield.

mgrjebbo · Post by **mgrjebbo** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:25 am

Mages are suppose to be a support role, they arent suppose to go galavanting around without a tank infront of them until they are very old and wise.

And that is just not true, even on the planes mages are of great help to both their parties and when soloing, i have done it i know. Low fort saves on some *windy* planes makes it very easy to level a pure wizard through 30's+

in respones to the other post, to get a 45 dc you would have to be around 40th level. If your a 40th level pure barb i think you should be able to cut through just about everything with ease. Its the class description for an epic barb for christ sake lol. Its suppose to be that way. So we found a solution, make it only availble to pure barbs of 38th+ level. that way they can get it at there last feat, that is a huge comitment to get. Well earned i would say.

and if you have a bunch of barbs running around everywhere that just makes the world that much more intresting.