Haste is nerfed?!?!

Juicetin · Post by **Juicetin** » Sat May 01, 2004 12:40 am

Ok, taking out perma haste is perfectly reasonable because it can unbalance they game and overpower many builds, but to change the spell haste to only add run speed, saving throws, and attack bonus is so absurd for countless reasons. For one, you try playing a caster and doing all the buffs one by one without 2 casts per round all day, IT BLOWS. Secondly there are ways it can easily be changed to not give ac, haste in my opinion speeds up the game, this isnt pnp people please get over it. Faster running, casting, and attacking simply speed up the game and make it more enjoyable for all, im not asking for perma haste but atleast keep the spell the way it is for the player's sake. Taking out the ac it adds really helps balance and also if perma haste is added making items that add only perma haste and -4 dodge ac. Just my 2 cents but i know for a fact im not the only player that feels this way.

Alanthaleous · Post by **Alanthaleous** » Sat May 01, 2004 6:15 am

Ok haste as be rescripted to conform to 3.5 rule sets just like alot of spells have... Thats is the base rule set for NS4, AD&D 3.5 edition. Go get a PHB and look up your favorite spells or rules and you see that NS4 is nerfing them, but merely conforming to 3.5 standards. This makes the games less powergaming and more fun. NS3 is still there for your haste item enjoyment....

Roomulus · Post by **Roomulus** » Sat May 01, 2004 9:08 am

No matter what some folks think changing this spell does NOT ruin casters!

With low magic casters have BIG advantages and making the spell conform to the latest rule-set merely helps balance things in a very small way.

Roomulus

Chimaira · Post by **Chimaira** » Sat May 01, 2004 10:53 am

When I first casted it and saw the bonusses, my first reaction was: LAME!!!!

But after thinking about how casters use it, and how quicken magic is slightly more important now, and also prevents mages from owning too much at early levels(since a spell at 4 lvls higher aint reasonable, except in mage duels where you use quickened mantles and breaches), I changed my mind and think its a good change, permenant haste is not what was messed up, its what haste does in general.

Juicetin · Post by **Juicetin** » Sat May 01, 2004 2:20 pm

Wow, you can't be serious... If everyone has access to haste its not unbalanced. It allows for faster battles, travel, and buffing so that everyone spend less time doing the boring things like running to a place far away or buffing. I understand they want to change all the spells but taking the extra action per round away just makes the game so much slower than it needs to be.

Knightwing4 · Post by **Knightwing4** » Sat May 01, 2004 10:08 pm

amen juice, what's the difference between this and expedicous retreat to a caster? +1 reflex and ab? pfff

Gil-Este · Post by **Gil-Este** » Sat May 01, 2004 11:56 pm

haste was designed as a melee buff, not as a caster buff. but IMO we should go back to 2nd edition haste: double everything and aging

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Sun May 02, 2004 1:14 am

Gil-Este wrote:haste was designed as a melee buff, not as a caster buff. but IMO we should go back to 2nd edition haste: double everything and aging

Didn't haste also age you one year everytime it was cast on you in AD&D 2nd?

Throst54 · Post by **Throst54** » Sun May 02, 2004 2:32 am

... why would they care if they age one year faster? these are all powergamers whining. infact, why does resting take so long? it should be less than 5 seconds! and lvling! is way too slow! whre is my lvl 20 in four hours!? this is an outrage! A mage's spell isnt made for a mage! it's for tanks! tath's why it's a mage spell! No, i dont care that it gives quicken spell a use and more balances out mages... even though three threads back i was whining about how mages are too powerful!

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Sun May 02, 2004 3:36 am

Hahahaha Throst rocked you!

And Haste is ment as an all purpose buff. Its for casters and fighters. Why? It makes people go fast and going fast is good for everyone. Helps a mage get a spell of faster ( i don't know about 3.5 rules on that one) In general its good for everyone.

I also feel that Wish should be incorporated into the game....

But to make things cooler....how about Greater Aspect of the Diety, which is cool. Or even better, the diety feat Alter Reality...Its wish...but better, and its a Feat!!! Come on people...haste is good no matter how you slice it....even nerfed its good. Tell me this, if we took haste away, you'd want it back wouldn't you? Yes you would.

DrakhanValane · Post by **DrakhanValane** » Mon May 03, 2004 7:08 pm

Actually Wizards of the Coast explained that Haste is meant to be more of a fighter buff than a caster buff. The reason that haste is modified in NS4 is because allowing casters to cast offensive spells twice as fast ruins balance. It also makes quicken spell useless. Mages are far more powerful than fighters, so really you're just asking for a free cookie. :)

Haste in NS4:
+1 attack
+1 AB
+1 AC
+1 reflex save
+50% speed

NS3:
+1 partial action (in NWN this means one extra attack or spell cast)
+4 AC
+50% speed

EvilIguana966 · Post by **EvilIguana966** » Mon May 03, 2004 7:17 pm

If you really want to be casting quickly might I suggest the Automatic Quicken Spell feats? Once you get to epic they are probably a very good idea to select. First time it makes levels 1-3 quickened with no penalties, second time it maked 4-6 quickened without penalties, and 3rd time it does the same for 7-9. Meaning 3 feats later you can cast any normal (non epic) spell two times per round!

Course that really sucks! Who would want to be dependant on careful feat selection for power? Pffft

Gil-Este · Post by **Gil-Este** » Mon May 03, 2004 7:19 pm

30 spellcraft + quicken spell + three epic feats = a lot of pain but perhaps worth it...

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Mon May 03, 2004 9:25 pm

Actually I bumped a mage up to 40 to check this out, and it seems that in base nwn quicken spell + haste = 3 spells/round