Planar Observations

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P. Fricebottle
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Planar Observations

Post by P. Fricebottle »

Yeah, we need a topic like this. Unlike our other areas like Frostdale and Amazons, planes are new. Tweaking is yet to be done, but we (the players) need to let them know what needs to be tweaked...

Plane of Air: I remember going there a long time ago, pre-wipe so I don't have a primary account on this besides a few personal observations. First, I notice no-one goes there. I've been with parties who've gone to Dwarf Home, Earth Plane, Plane of Shadows, Fire Plane, Water Plane, and just recently the Halls of the Dead. Minielvis told me it was too little the xp for too much the trouble.

This seems to be the main problem. Too little xp for too much the trouble. On a different game I play, they call it "Developer Disease." Whenever a developer is designing an area, and re-designing it over and over, they often remain blind to several areas of play considering they know EXACTLY everything about it because they designed it. Whenever a play-tester comes along, however, they die in a few seconds.

Dwarf Home: Actually pretty balanced, only problem I found here was that the gear drop rate is EXTREMELY low. For six levels we found not one Holy Plate. I also have heard that a few of the Dwarven crafted items don't drop much either.

Earth Plane: Easiest planes, hands down. But its even considering the CR is pretty low, a fair trade-off. Gear dropped on a good level, nice work with Grindstones and Stalagmites.

Fire Plane: Only been here once post-wipe. It doesn't seem to be too popular with parties. I didn't notice any problems there myself.

Water Plane: Oh god. So hard it was insane. Dwarven Defenders are known for being really good tanks, apparently not here :lol: . A team consisting of a cleric (me), dwarven defender, and damage dealer went there and immediately turned back. I've been there another way with someone else, but it seems so hard no on is willing to go there.

Plane of the Shadows: Drops were scarce on the Shadar-Kai, but that makes sense and I'm assuming is supposed to be that way. Only problem we found here were Shadow Renders and Nightstalkers were definitely not worth the CR.

Halls of the Dead: Ah, the new plane. We went there, and let me tell ya, it was scary. We handled the outside place pretty darn well. XP was pitiful, but we didn't die (actually we died several times but by die I mean we all die). 30 xp at level 36 made Baby Reznor cry. The whole time we were there, I got 3k xp. We were there for a while. The Midget Skull Reapers had ungodly AC despite the fact they were dual-wielders. The archers were retarded. Half of them didn't shoot there bows. What they DID do however, was a bolt attack that knocked you down for what seemed forever. That needs to go or be fixed in some way. A bolt attack from a CR 29 creature should not knock down a pure level 37 monk with 84 discipline. Then we got into the Halls of the Dead. Spell Failure all around, which normally wouldn't be a problem but my mates got cursed or something and I couldn't do any restores. Then Sandy died, tried a resurrection, and it didn't work. We all died.

Yeah....I think I'm done typing now.

Edit: Fixed typos
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Amoenotep
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Post by Amoenotep »

all the planes have their advantages and disadvantages. the planes that you think are too much trouble for their xp, i can take a single type of char there and rip into it like paper towels. if you haven't noticed each plane gets a little more difficult as it goes in, these last ones being the hardest need bigger more balanced parties with great rewards at the end.

what spell failure in HoD are you talking about? i've never really seen unaccounted for spell failure here.
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MLoki
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Post by MLoki »

The spell failure is an effect done by one of the mobsin HoD. I have noticed it as well but not being a caster at the time was unaffected by it. But it is there.

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Post by Sparky »

He's reffering to the Demi Lich's cone attack which strips buffs and gives a short term high % spell failure.

That said, I believe HoD inner areas, Negative Energy, and Positive Energy planes are meant to be very very tough, such that its a badge of honor to complete an area.
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CrazyJ
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Post by CrazyJ »

Air plane isn't too terribly hard, you just need a good party for it.

Fire plane in my experience is more popular than Earth... it and Earth are the easiest planes.

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Post by Kirg »

Amoenotep wrote:all the planes have their advantages and disadvantages. the planes that you think are too much trouble for their xp, i can take a single type of char there and rip into it like paper towels. if you haven't noticed each plane gets a little more difficult as it goes in, these last ones being the hardest need bigger more balanced parties with great rewards at the end.

what spell failure in HoD are you talking about? i've never really seen unaccounted for spell failure here.
That is fine but at least adapt the CR accordingly. The mobs should have a higher CR in HoD ie.

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Post by Flailer »

HoD:
Yeah, front part of HoD should be roughly on par (maybe a little harder) with the elemental planes. The interior is the nasty part.

Knockdown bolt is a touch attack, so it should be going vs. AC. Duration is 3 rounds.

Undead Sentinels should be getting much smarter here on next checkin.

The Demilich anti-magic cone has a will save on it now. A very high one, but a save nonetheless. Also, demi-lich can steal your soul, which kills you. If you kill the demi-lich, if should release your soul and revive you.

Water Plane:
I've made that plane easier about 5 times - along with plane of shadow. A pity, because that's one of my favorite ones from a design point of view and shadar-kai are some of my favorite chars from PnP.

Drop rate on Shadar-kai and Dwarven High Priest is exactly what every other mob is.

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Anyway, feedback on areas is tough I realize. Just because a party goes into a place and dies, might mean it's too hard for that party makeup, but maybe it'd be just right for another party.

I'd hope that a group of clerics, palis and CoT could clean up pretty well in HoD, but rogues and monks are going to have a tough go at it.
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Post by CrazyJ »

The water plane made me go "whoa, pretty" the first time I entered it. We promptly got plastered by the Water Spirits (whatever the LS-wielding ones are called). A decent level 30-32 party should be able to handle it, although I did have a party wiped out from under me by a single Wail from a Siren once.

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Post by algol333 »

i think water and shadow rnt that bad with the right party....water is also set up where you can almost run str8 to boss without fighting anything along the way...

as for the new planes only been to HOD once and my comp didnt enjoy crashed about 4-5 times..(nothing new soemtimes by comp doesnt like NWN too much).. but i look forward to trying HOD again... neg plane sounds fun but very tough...

good to see NS4 with some challenging planes...
great work to DEVs and DMs once again..
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Post by kingfatzo »

my only gripe are fire guardians --- take a long time to kill unless you are in a Large party...there are spawns in alzaras lair and even dwarfs that are easier to kill but are still the same cr....i could take down 2 dwarf eleites (CR 33) or 2 alzara guardians in the time it takes to kill a fire guardian....often i just ingnore them while leveling in the planes. :lol:
Last edited by kingfatzo on Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Amoenotep »

the new planes get harder and you will die if you don't prepare right. have fun.
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Post by P. Fricebottle »

The real point is the xp. I don't mind a challenge. But 30 xp for something that takes 5 minutes to kill just isn't worth it.
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Post by P. Fricebottle »

Oh yeah, going through some screenies I took I found a problem with Earth Plane.

The Earth Guardians are quite tough, but what got me was their bolt attack that knocked me down. It would knock me down for a bit, then I'd get the crap beaten out of me. Then, looking in the battle log I found this...

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Now, if I remember correctly, the touched attacks went off of AC. This might just be another mix-up on my part, but I just wanted to make sure.

Also, last night, I found a Bone Thresher in the Halls of the Dead. I picked it up casually, then later I looked at the description and it said the Plane of Water in it. Is it an artifact, or was that a bug?
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Post by Sparky »

All touch attacks, be they ranged or melee, ignore all AC except for that granted from: Dexterity, Dodge, and Deflection. IE, your armor, shield and their enhancement bonuses do not help against a touch attack.

Edit: Forgot to add natural armor does not help either. All a touch attack has to do is "touch" you.
Last edited by Sparky on Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by MLoki »

Actually it goes off of AC without your Armor, Shield or Natural Armor bonuses. They are only trying to touch you not get through your defenses. Dodge, Deflection and Dex Modifier still apply.

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*Edit* Sparky beat me by less then a minute.. hehe...

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