item level restrictions

gruevy · Post by **gruevy** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:00 pm

consider this:
items that you might find appropriate for lvl 5 - 14 or so, put the ILR at 5, simply. 5 levels in a class are supposed to mean something. Dont try and tell me my char 'cant use' a [censored] sword because it does another 1d6 damage. It's not a damn lightsaber.

Any more powerful item, put ILR at 10, and it falls on the ground when you die, meaning if pk'd, you lose it, an otherwise, you hafta go back and get it, probably meaning sneak in and grab it and sneak out away from that dragon, and hope you dont die again.

Although many sissy munchkins out there may disagree, the potential to lose your good eq adds a whole new level of intensity and well, fun. Makes you care whether or not you die. As it stands now, death means jack and people who whine about dying seems like wimps.

I know what most of you will think: But that means people will just team up to steal eq from solo'ers!

Yep.

Take a group yourself or learn to be sneaky. Fear of death makes the game more fun, trust me. In my perfect world, you'd lose ALL eq and inventory items and cash not in a bank, meaning your corpse stays there and is lootable, but I realize this would cause conniption fits in people whose mommy still wipes their backsides.

Well, what do you all think?

Mokihana · Post by **Mokihana** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:13 pm

just for the record you may have had a good argument and ideas but i was instantly disuaded by your attitude. next time try and be a little less condescending and maybe someone will take you seriously.

sep caldessian · Post by **sep caldessian** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 12:53 pm

well, ill address the point of losing gear:

IMO, death penalties are way weak. 50 xp per level and 10% gold is barely a slap on the wrist. i feel that harsher death penalties may result in less griefing and newbie slaughter. as it stands now, death is a very minor inconvenience. sure your soul can be brought back through some dimension, but how does all your gear and gold come too? what happened to "you cant take it with you after youre dead?"

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 1:01 pm

wait wait wait.. how will harsher death penalties(which afaik only occur from mob/summons deaths) affect pvp in any way? And if they do occur in pvp, then it'll be the noobs who suffer most because even if you mob a high lvl char, they'll take out more of your low lvl guys first. Not to mention losing items will cause griefing as characters will kill to steal others inventories, especially riskless fights with newbies(totally invalidating pp btw).

gruevy · Post by **gruevy** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 2:02 pm

Mokihana: I did it on purpose.

gruevy · Post by **gruevy** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 2:14 pm

more on harsh death penalties:

My thought is, someone should be monitoring in-faction PK, and if it's not justifiable, the offender should be punished accordingly, meaning, killed or kicked out of the faction. I thought that a faction was supposed to be like a clan itself.

Also, harsher death penalties mean that you have to be CAREFUL when exploring. You don't just randomly wander to see where you end up, or see how far you can get in before dying. A harsher death penalty will increase the skill level of the playerbase. Zones would be played the way they were meant to be played: Carefully explored, thought about, and planned ahead of time. Losing all your gear and a lot of you exp will limit just randomly offending people, because loss of the gear that took you days to find will be a shattering loss. Becoming a hunted fugitive would mean something. Things like that.

Now, the reason that I think that item level restrictions should be lessened in general is that they just don't make sense in real life. Someone who has powerful friends will increase in skill much faster in real life. Trust me, I am an accomplished martial artist. I know about learning to fight. This cannot be represented by a lessening of needed exp, so it should be represented by general zone knowledge and more powerful eq. Making it so that eq can be lost makes it so that people who shouldnt have it are less likely to keep it.

TC-GTRF · Post by **TC-GTRF** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 2:18 pm

I like it just the way it is. The lower ILR and moderate/low respawn penalties balance itself perfectly. To do what the above poster suggests would just return it to a new version of NS_3, which is what, I assume is trying to be avoided.

Portanas · Post by **Portanas** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:07 pm

wow, this is doesnt feel like Ns anymore :p.
Personally i think the easy deathpenaltys are fine, i would hate to die and lose everything. because well, thats just stupid.. this isnt real life and nor do i want it to be. the death penaltys were fine as they were losing xp and gold. However it would be a nice touch if your gold instead of being 10% subtracted or watever, was dropped on the ground for the guy that killed you.. and or the PKer gets points.

Do i think armor and all your gear should be dropped? no because thats ridiculus.

Portanas · Post by **Portanas** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:07 pm

as for the level rescritions, i think they stupid and should be taken out.
simply because i think if you earn something u should be able to use it on any character you please.

Souldin · Post by **Souldin** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:19 pm

I don't think that death penalties should be implemented at all.

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:38 pm

A major problem with losing equipment, shown by lost equipment in shadowbane, is that mages can still function. They won't do as much damage, will lose some defense, but they can still cast their basic spellbook. Weapon chars cannot. They rely on armor for staying alive vs elemental and physical dmg. resists and ac. And without a weapon they're useless unless they're the rare monk. So that's a great reason imo not to lose your items.

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 5:55 pm

Im hating ILRs but i'm willing to handle them because some of them make sense. Others most certainly do not. People are making the base claim that adding 1d6 damage here, or adding 2 fire and 2 acid to lvl damage there at lvl 9 weapons suddenly turns the game back into NS3....I don't know how it does that....and I'd like to know how...please...enlighten me (and I'm serious not sarcastic)

Gil-Este · Post by **Gil-Este** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:00 pm

ATI, consider this your enlightenment

it all has to do with scales and proportions. the mobs in NS4 are numerically weaker than the mobs one was expected to be able to kill at the same level in NS3. By NS3 mob standards adding another 1d6 damage or 2 extra damage is a pittance hardly worthy of consideration. But by NS4 standards 2 damage suddenly is the equivalant of 10 or 15 in NS3. You're right, maybe we should try it out, there is no absolutely surefire way to decide if 2 damage makes the game better or not without testing it. But in one of the other ILR topics someone mentioned something about how there are weapons like the ones you are talking about, you just need to find them.

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:09 pm

Yeah at lvl 16.....ooohhhh come on fogey do the math, for gods sakes your in calculus, TWO damage is two damage no matter how you slice it. at lvl 5, for ANY character that is only 2 extra damage a round....not 10-15 by any other standard...its still two damage. At lvl nine its 2 fire and 2 acid....that is ...wait for it......wait for it..... 4 damage. Fighting Cr lvl 9's with only 4 extra damage an attack at MOST is only 8 damage extra a round... why? because fighters only have 2 attacks by lvl 9. Also, thats all i want is lvl 5 and lvl 9 damage increases after that I don't care. But lvl 16 items don't help me at lvl 5 or 9, or 13 or 2. Lvl 5 and lvl 9 weapons need some rethinking. If this is a mid magic server, put some magic on the weapons! Look at an arrow... at lvl 5 it does 1d6 extra damage Thats cool for CR lvv 5 monsters..... at lvl 7 its pointless because BUg Bear fire paws can slam you for 15-20 and you only get them for 11-12. Furthermore, that means i have to go up 4 more levels to get a grand total of 1d8 damage on my arrows....thats hardly worth it.

mumoogaipan · Post by **mumoogaipan** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 6:16 pm

WOW. Jiro you are mean and fogey, there is no mathematical means to determine the damage ratios from NS3 to NS4. There is no hard data like in economics. The numbers you gave are aribtrary unless there is some sort of rhuric you used to get them. At which point i would like for you to show me the rubric. Either way. It would be good to have +4 dmg (2 fire and 2 sonic) at lvl 9 since that would be a magic item and would be greatly appreciated.