I'm playing a monk and there appears to be a big difference between it and say any other attack based class out there.
Mostly this is in the Attack bonus level, and AC items for the monks.
At level 23 I have a hard time hitting things that are my level, at level 25 when players get much better armor upgrades, the monk sits in the corner hoping to hit something. Monks get 5 swings, but you might only land 1 hit, hoping for a critical.
The only way to make monk work at all post 30 is mix him with SD, and use the bonus from hipsing to attack the mob.
Is this what was intended? I know firefists take the ab up there a bit, but it still can't = a pure cleric/ranger/rogue. I say rogues because they get better weapon selections then monks.
The quivering palm feat can't really kill anything its useless.
At level 20: 20/1 absorb is useless since every level 5+ in the game appears to have a magical weapon.
The stunning blow only works on someone with very low stats, but again you probably cant hit them post 30.
The only logical use for a monk is mix him with SD so you can hide and get some bonus, which is a bit sad.
The one crowning feature of a monk is the speed of run if you go epic, which is good because thier choices in most scenarios is run.
Even attacking casters at higher levels is useless because thier AC is up past 40 with II/epic shields up. Which means you probably can't hit them either.
If you are looking for things to balance perhaps start with monks, or giving them HIPS at level 30 so we do not have to waste 5 levels taking SD.
Also perhaps some more monk only booster items would assist.
The monk at level 20 has a very low AB, yes we can go STR based but then we suffer our AC to be very low, that isn't an option really if you want to survive long enough to try to swing at something.
So perhaps more AB based bonus items for monks, give them some ability upgrades that might make it usefull to have a monk around, or give them a special item that might make it interesting to play one. Try quivering palm on a mountain giant at level 30. or anything really I've had it work on a goblin once I think. Stunning fist works on almost nothing post planar, no chance at all, unless investing feats for 2 points each feat on the DC, could this auto upgrade perhaps? Even with wasting 10 feats on it, I'd not be able to stun most things because the base DC.
I like monks, they are fun, but you have to have a lot of friends willing to let you ride the exp groups to level, because a non SD monk has 0 chance of killing anything versus his chances of death post 20 otherwise. Wolves were the only option and they are 10 now, so I can't even take the long run of killing them for anything.
Could we get some monk only robes post 25 that we might actually see in enough quantity so that they might get to the monk players and not some guys twink 3rd character.?
I saw a +6 kama golden I think, is there any monk only gloves, and monk only robes.
I'm just dreading trying to do anything post 25 shortly if I can't find a group willing to take a weak attacker with healing needs?
We can all talk about how a monk has it fine, but if thats true how many monks do you se e online? How many levels of monk?
Monk improvements post 20
Before this wipe i had a 26 monk, I played him seldom.
Anything dex based in this mod will hurt in dmg w/o sneaks, thats just the nature of the beast.
however, I hear there are talks about having pure builds have special bonus's.
A level 40 pure monk is simply useless in this mod. They arent that fast anymore, and they're AB are sadly low, even if you hit anything it will not be for much.
i definately think monks need some love. Until then I wont make a monk again, waste of time.
Anything dex based in this mod will hurt in dmg w/o sneaks, thats just the nature of the beast.
however, I hear there are talks about having pure builds have special bonus's.
A level 40 pure monk is simply useless in this mod. They arent that fast anymore, and they're AB are sadly low, even if you hit anything it will not be for much.
i definately think monks need some love. Until then I wont make a monk again, waste of time.
the thing about using stunning fist is at a 41 dc a lot of builds wont have much trouble making it, and planar mobs have insane saves.CrazyJ wrote:I'm working on a half-ogre Monk... upgrading WIS on levelup. At level 15, the DC on my stunning fist is about 22. At level 40, if my WIS (modified) is at 32, the DC will be 10+20+11 = 41 fort save to avoid stun. Not great, but not too terribly bad either.
Yes someday there will be pure class bonuses but Fighter, Ranger, barb will be the first.
The only real advantage I see to monks are speed, AC, sheer number of attacks and knockdown ability that works well, and the highest Spell resist you can get.
There are alot of gloves and kamas for monks to use. As well as a plehtora of cloth armor.
Your best bet though is to mix a few levels of something else.
I would do assassin or rogue for the sneak attack dmg you get after you knock someone down. My favorite of course is 5 lvls of shadow dancer and like 14 of rogue for the critical strike.
I have another that works better which is 10 monk 30 assassin. Higher ab from assassin. Make it an earth gen for the huge racial ability which give dmg reduction and ac.
The only real advantage I see to monks are speed, AC, sheer number of attacks and knockdown ability that works well, and the highest Spell resist you can get.
There are alot of gloves and kamas for monks to use. As well as a plehtora of cloth armor.
Your best bet though is to mix a few levels of something else.
I would do assassin or rogue for the sneak attack dmg you get after you knock someone down. My favorite of course is 5 lvls of shadow dancer and like 14 of rogue for the critical strike.
I have another that works better which is 10 monk 30 assassin. Higher ab from assassin. Make it an earth gen for the huge racial ability which give dmg reduction and ac.
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Cthulhu Drega
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indeed a monk rogue build is devastating especaly with a good nuber of rogue levels. crip strike -2 str x 5 att = -10 str a round. thats if you dont go dual wield and then youll have up to 8 attcks a round ( imp 2 wep fight and flury of blows)
now i will admit a pure monk is a bit weak but i know they're possible as poet had ha 34th level pure monk ( prolly more thats just the last i saw) pre wipe. monks as any other class has its ups and downs.
some other monk builds that are nasty:
ftr wm monk good AB and nice crits
paladin monk 19/21 19 pally then monk 12 attacks a round i believe and a good AB to boot
the ever popular monk cleric the self buffer need i say more?
Mloki had a monk rdd build that was quite impressive ask him about it
monk druid while this may not be the best combo it makes a great caster druid build 6 or 12 monk then druid and with spells like owls insight and barkskin you have a nasty ac not to mention the perks of unarmed prof with your elemntal shapes.
ranger monk this is a good build for PvP again the 6 or 10 levels of monk and the rest ranger favored enemys and bane of enemys feat and ranger spells like bladethirst for your kamas and cats for extra AB and another that has 12 or so attacks a round.
some other notes on muticlassing monks key levels for monk are 6 10 12 15 and 16 depending on the build is where you would cap monk at
hope this helps
now i will admit a pure monk is a bit weak but i know they're possible as poet had ha 34th level pure monk ( prolly more thats just the last i saw) pre wipe. monks as any other class has its ups and downs.
some other monk builds that are nasty:
ftr wm monk good AB and nice crits
paladin monk 19/21 19 pally then monk 12 attacks a round i believe and a good AB to boot
the ever popular monk cleric the self buffer need i say more?
Mloki had a monk rdd build that was quite impressive ask him about it
monk druid while this may not be the best combo it makes a great caster druid build 6 or 12 monk then druid and with spells like owls insight and barkskin you have a nasty ac not to mention the perks of unarmed prof with your elemntal shapes.
ranger monk this is a good build for PvP again the 6 or 10 levels of monk and the rest ranger favored enemys and bane of enemys feat and ranger spells like bladethirst for your kamas and cats for extra AB and another that has 12 or so attacks a round.
some other notes on muticlassing monks key levels for monk are 6 10 12 15 and 16 depending on the build is where you would cap monk at
hope this helps
"There is no great genius without some touch of madness." - Seneca
"There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line." - Oscar Levant
"There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line." - Oscar Levant
Powerbuilding a Monk is constrained by the limits inherent in DnD... just like it's hard to make a twinked-out Fighter, it's hard to do it with a Monk as well. Classes without spells are designed to fit stopgaps: Monks beat on mages, Fighters beat on other melee-types, Rangers track the enemies so you can find them in the first place, Barbarians are Fighters who can't read... and sadly, it's hard to translate that level of specificity into what is essentially a single-player game that allows single-players to band together.
I hate to debase a class that in pen n' paper is designed heart and soul to be a pure class, but in NWN, multiclassing is the way to go. If you really want a Dex build Monk, throw in Rogue or Assassin as others have said; sneak attack litterally exists as the pre-designed way for Dex builds to still deal damage. If you want a Str build, throw in some Fighter for the spec. and higher BAB, or Ranger for free ambidex (dual-wielding kamas at 8 attacks/rnd is sick, no matter what others say). Monk/Clerics are ever-popular and pretty dang good from what I've seen, although I haven't played one yet in NS4 even after all this time.... but the long and the short of it is that pure Monks are never going to be a powerbuild no matter what we do to the feats or abilities they get; DnD simply never meant them to be so.
I hate to debase a class that in pen n' paper is designed heart and soul to be a pure class, but in NWN, multiclassing is the way to go. If you really want a Dex build Monk, throw in Rogue or Assassin as others have said; sneak attack litterally exists as the pre-designed way for Dex builds to still deal damage. If you want a Str build, throw in some Fighter for the spec. and higher BAB, or Ranger for free ambidex (dual-wielding kamas at 8 attacks/rnd is sick, no matter what others say). Monk/Clerics are ever-popular and pretty dang good from what I've seen, although I haven't played one yet in NS4 even after all this time.... but the long and the short of it is that pure Monks are never going to be a powerbuild no matter what we do to the feats or abilities they get; DnD simply never meant them to be so.
~DM Yonwe
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Velsharoon - God of Undeath
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MasterYoda
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even monk druid isnt that good .... no damage...Cthulhu Drega wrote:indeed a monk rogue build is devastating especaly with a good nuber of rogue levels. crip strike -2 str x 5 att = -10 str a round. thats if you dont go dual wield and then youll have up to 8 attcks a round ( imp 2 wep fight and flury of blows)
now i will admit a pure monk is a bit weak but i know they're possible as poet had ha 34th level pure monk ( prolly more thats just the last i saw) pre wipe. monks as any other class has its ups and downs.
some other monk builds that are nasty:
ftr wm monk good AB and nice crits
paladin monk 19/21 19 pally then monk 12 attacks a round i believe and a good AB to boot
the ever popular monk cleric the self buffer need i say more?
Mloki had a monk rdd build that was quite impressive ask him about it
monk druid while this may not be the best combo it makes a great caster druid build 6 or 12 monk then druid and with spells like owls insight and barkskin you have a nasty ac not to mention the perks of unarmed prof with your elemntal shapes.
ranger monk this is a good build for PvP again the 6 or 10 levels of monk and the rest ranger favored enemys and bane of enemys feat and ranger spells like bladethirst for your kamas and cats for extra AB and another that has 12 or so attacks a round.
some other notes on muticlassing monks key levels for monk are 6 10 12 15 and 16 depending on the build is where you would cap monk at
hope this helps
i have one level 21 and fully buffed and shifter ( shapechange drqgon has best ab and ac ) still gets worked by casters and other "true" melee builds.
TGPO wrote:Man, dont u hate it when yoda is right
Amoenotep wrote:yeah....he's a little right
Monks are great for relic raids 
Monks are good for pvp, though the low ab and damage means they peak at lvl 25ish.
In addition to what's already been mentioned, monks multiclass well with dwarven defender and champion of torm.
I havent figured out what to do with monks to make them ok in planes. Is there much in the planes that isnt immune to crits and/or sneaks?
Monks are good for pvp, though the low ab and damage means they peak at lvl 25ish.
In addition to what's already been mentioned, monks multiclass well with dwarven defender and champion of torm.
I havent figured out what to do with monks to make them ok in planes. Is there much in the planes that isnt immune to crits and/or sneaks?
Start with more than 8 or 10 in strength and use your hands. DD's answer for everything lately seems to be Earth Genasi
Tep wrote:I login and there's a dwarf to kill. You can't ask for much more than that.
Alkapwn wrote:NC has the most amazing melee build there is. Its a friggin unstopable juggernaut of pain.
Honestly, the monk is viable. The best thing to MC a Monk with is Cleric.
5 levels of monk (since you have to in this server) then go rest with cleric stuff, put on good armor watch you AB go up and then watch you AC go up as well (high wisdom for AC is always good). Also I believe at 5th you get IKD which is ALSO great, use Power Attack to decrease some AB (which you will have spare of) and get more damage.
Plus with trickery and travel, you're gonna be fast with II, something most monks wish they had.
Monk/Cleric builds are always a great decision.
I concede however pure monk builds are lacking. Oh well.
5 levels of monk (since you have to in this server) then go rest with cleric stuff, put on good armor watch you AB go up and then watch you AC go up as well (high wisdom for AC is always good). Also I believe at 5th you get IKD which is ALSO great, use Power Attack to decrease some AB (which you will have spare of) and get more damage.
Plus with trickery and travel, you're gonna be fast with II, something most monks wish they had.
Monk/Cleric builds are always a great decision.
I concede however pure monk builds are lacking. Oh well.
I've tried fire, i've tried faith, and i've tried force, all I have left is hope.
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Death Dealer1
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I too agree its difficult to go pure monk on a low-magic world.
A monks AC is governed by items to make him less prone to being smashed about.
I decided on maximising the monk benefits by multiclassing with fighter and cleric.
My 24th level dwarven multi-monk (MM) gets 8 attacks around can buff up his dex and his wisdom along with other buffs and has wpn specialisation in kamas. Another benefit of taking monk is the reduced ab negative steps only -3 instead of the standard -5 making the monk more effective in combat by landing more blows. The 8 attacks comes via ambi dexterity, two-wpn and impr two-wpn fighting thanks to the extra fighter feats.
I left my wisdom at the starting 16 and used the ice amulet which grants me a +6 modifier (effectively replacing a towershield)
I have chosen to pump up my dex and strength instead. My AC hovers around 50-53 which is not too shabby.
I get the bonuses of the monk with feats like cleave, evasion, knockdown and improved knockdown which are a bargain for a minumum of 6 levels which allows me to put my fighter feats into other areas to benefit by ab and combat effectiveness such as wpn focus/specialisation and improved crits.
So i wouldnt discount monks all together but yes pure monks will not do well in other than relic runners and have difficulty in pretty much all areas if they solo except the old FD wolves as mentioned previously.
As others have said try and add to the monk abilities by accentuating their positives while eliminating the negatives (a wonderful life lesson there lol)
cheers
kgb
A monks AC is governed by items to make him less prone to being smashed about.
I decided on maximising the monk benefits by multiclassing with fighter and cleric.
My 24th level dwarven multi-monk (MM) gets 8 attacks around can buff up his dex and his wisdom along with other buffs and has wpn specialisation in kamas. Another benefit of taking monk is the reduced ab negative steps only -3 instead of the standard -5 making the monk more effective in combat by landing more blows. The 8 attacks comes via ambi dexterity, two-wpn and impr two-wpn fighting thanks to the extra fighter feats.
I left my wisdom at the starting 16 and used the ice amulet which grants me a +6 modifier (effectively replacing a towershield)
I have chosen to pump up my dex and strength instead. My AC hovers around 50-53 which is not too shabby.
I get the bonuses of the monk with feats like cleave, evasion, knockdown and improved knockdown which are a bargain for a minumum of 6 levels which allows me to put my fighter feats into other areas to benefit by ab and combat effectiveness such as wpn focus/specialisation and improved crits.
So i wouldnt discount monks all together but yes pure monks will not do well in other than relic runners and have difficulty in pretty much all areas if they solo except the old FD wolves as mentioned previously.
As others have said try and add to the monk abilities by accentuating their positives while eliminating the negatives (a wonderful life lesson there lol)
cheers
kgb
Tres Nawt {CLAD}, Tres Baf {CLAD}, Tres Leyana {CLAD}, Tres Q'sara {CLAD}
Dunno why everyone has always been so gung ho on pure class.
The multi class exists for a reason. It is so you can customize your character to a unique projection of yourself.
And I know all of you love to twink, cheese and maximize every last ounce of the D&D/NWN ruleset just as I do.
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We will add a few pure class bonuses in but dont expect every class to get that.
However, that being said your going to love Barbarian and Ranger.
The multi class exists for a reason. It is so you can customize your character to a unique projection of yourself.
And I know all of you love to twink, cheese and maximize every last ounce of the D&D/NWN ruleset just as I do.
--
We will add a few pure class bonuses in but dont expect every class to get that.
However, that being said your going to love Barbarian and Ranger.
OK, what I gather then:
Monks are useless post 25 because they get speed bonus post 25 but you wont ever survive long enough to attain it. So haste is probably better, so get a 25 cleric and add to ab and ac.
The point of the thread was to ask for some assistance in making the monk which is a good relic runner I guess, if people didn't camp zone-in with IKD, a better class to play.
Now that Bigbies is not even SR related I guess I'll scrub the monk improvement idea. Unless of course I just want 5 levels of it for bonus feats.
Monks are useless post 25 because they get speed bonus post 25 but you wont ever survive long enough to attain it. So haste is probably better, so get a 25 cleric and add to ab and ac.
The point of the thread was to ask for some assistance in making the monk which is a good relic runner I guess, if people didn't camp zone-in with IKD, a better class to play.
Now that Bigbies is not even SR related I guess I'll scrub the monk improvement idea. Unless of course I just want 5 levels of it for bonus feats.