Palemaster a class gone wrong

Thanos · Post by **Thanos** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 1:21 am

Some other problems with pale master.

The level 2 animate dead spell is broken it summons a level 1 skel archer. This is weaker than level 1 wizard summons spell. Much weaker then the normal palemaster summons. Palemaster summons is the bread and butter of palemaster. They should have the most powerfull undead summons. At level 30 they are supposed to be able to summon a demi-lich.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Every 2 levels of palemaster should ad 1 level to your wizard class in spell power. Bioware could never get it to work rigth unless you use scripting. Maybe a programmer could script this and fix it for NS4.

thanks

Post by **Lokey** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 2:42 am

PM is on the fix list and there's a lot we can do.

Of course PM = melee PrC in many player's minds, would you give up the PM immunities for significant changes to how how necromancy spells can be used by the PM plus content for Necromancy in general (job level 1: Digging up graves, 2: Building your undead army...)?

Thanos · Post by **Thanos** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 4:15 am

Thanks for the reply.

Some of your suggestions sound exciting. I would welcome whatever you can come up with. For the short term I feel the class needs to be fixed so i can be playable as a wizard/Palemaster combo and and not taken by a tank class that wants some ac and immunities.

I think the easies solution is to make it impossible to play a tank type class when your a palemaster. That would eliminate these crazy tank build which make no sense anyway. I was a wizard then I became a palemaster but I decided a monks life was for me. How could someone even justify such a combo. Only allow the Wizard/Palemaster combo.

Pale master is supposed to summon a horde of undead.. Obviously thats not possible with lag considerations. The undead summons should be a companion like a druid animal. Something that dosen't expire from time. They palemaster could be the opposite of the druid class.

another issue is the death touch.

If you look at the death touch ability. Its save is quite low compared to finger of death plus you have a chance of missing. Where finger of death always hit and from a long range where death touch is melee.

The class needs some serious reworking. PM is supposed to be played along with a wizard. Not a Tank/munchkins wet dream build. I would glady give up immune critical/ac bonus for the chance to play the class how its supposed to be. A true necromancer caster.

Thanks

dond · Post by **dond** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 11:44 am

lol
i'd give up imm crit in a heartbeat for an undead army(every enemy killed becomes a skeletal slave to the PM), buffed up necromancy spells, and some kickass summons. (like a REAL demi lich, not some watered down wuss

)

TC-GTRF · Post by **TC-GTRF** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 12:51 pm

I'd be willing to trade the immunities for two things:

1) Caster levels increasing as you go up in level as it is in PnP. I don't remember whether it's every level or every other level, but I'd be satisfied with either.

2) A power similar to the Ranger and Druid's Animal Empathy which could be used to "tame" wild undead for periods of time. This should increase in usefulness as you go up in PM levels. (Max HD of creature tamed and duration). Be nice to have a mummy helping you in a fight. One of the things I miss from BG2 is the Evil Cleric's ability to get a bunch of undead in a crypt fighting each other.

gilthas13 · Post by **gilthas13** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 8:15 pm

Ok, a coupla things:

giving up PM immunities would be silly. The class as BioWare wrote it is almost completely as per PnP. Banning Sorc/PM combos? That is just silly. It was meant as a defensive bolster to a spellcaster, not an offensive one. Check your load screens. "A Pale Master Monk is a deadly combination". Yup. To say that that wasn't what they intended is going a little far.

Now, secondly. Where I would whole heartedly agree that there level-level abilities are a little weak, how is this different than Blackguard, Assasin, etc where their level to level abilities are just as weak? For that matter.. how about Harper Scout? Have you ever even SEEN anyone play a Harper Scout? Did you smack them?

I am not a big forum person, and honestly, neither is 90% of the people that play NWN, on this server or any other. Yes they are there, they add flavor, but most people are just there to play the game.

However, arguing the other side. With NS the way it is, something HAS to be done with the innate summoning of all the classes. With the Summon Monster ability adjusted the way it is, something should definately be done to adequately compensate ALL the P-Classes with a summons ability.

The moment you 'change' PM to make it 'playable' you are nerfing every other PClass out there. Please keep balance a consideration and put scripting efforts to where they are needed more. Like fixing bugs instead of classes with nothing wrong with them.

gilthas

ps. yes, I play a Sor/PM. You want limiting? I get extra spells/day without learning new spells.. now thats rough.

Thanos · Post by **Thanos** » Tue Apr 27, 2004 8:45 pm

There is already a bug ticked open on bg summons and shodaowdancers. Yes all the summons need to be updated like the cleric and wizards summons spells and yes they will get to them.

You can start your own thread on the harperscout or assassins on how to make them more usefull. No one is saying they don't need a little tweaking. Harper scout is a 5 level prc. A BG with no summons is still a damm good prc. I think the pale master situation is different right now. The undead summons is the main component of a arcane caster/palemaster build.Its not even summoning what bioware set up for them.

I have no problem with a pal/sorc combo. The combos i have a problem with are the power gaming PvP munchkins who make combos that make no sense. Taking a class like this should not be allowed. 3 wiz/10 palemaster/27 monk or fighter.

I would like to see a 30 level palemaster a reality instead of taking 10 levels to just boost your ac and immunities.

Ace Dragonfury · Post by **Ace Dragonfury** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:41 pm

I have no problem with a pal/sorc combo. The combos i have a problem with are the power gaming PvP munchkins who make combos that make no sense. Taking a class like this should not be allowed. 3 wiz/10 palemaster/27 monk or fighter.

Possible solutions make PM achievable if specialized in Necromancy OR have spell focus necromancy feat

Gil-Este · Post by **Gil-Este** » Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:45 pm

or stick back in the roleplaying requirments from tome and blood where you have to spend three days sealed in crypt with the undead. of course a dm would have to watch you and there would probably be some kind of an added challenge or something. just something to limit the number of pale masters out there. chopping off your arm isn't something every warrior is willing to do, or even every mage.

Thanos · Post by **Thanos** » Fri Apr 30, 2004 1:13 pm

On the summons. If you set the summons up like the druid companion. A palemaster could have 2 summons at once. Instead of giving 20 different undead to summon. Give around 4 or 5.

Something like this.

1.Revenant -Tank undead

2. Curst Rogue with x-bow - ranged/support undead, pick locks disable traps

3. Demi-lich - caster undead

4. Vampire priest - little bit of everything

Let them level up with the palemaster. This would allow the palemastere to have a companion that wouldn't step on the wizard summons and also would increase in strength to level 30 giving a reason to take the palemaster class beyond level 10.

Æ · Post by Æ » Sun May 02, 2004 12:37 pm

big reason to take palemaster beyond 10 = +2 natural AC every 4 levels
at level 30 that would be a +14! If you were lvl 3 wizard/37 palemaster you'd get a natural +18....

But that is of course only really practical if they fix it so palemaster levels raise your spell casting level... would love to make the character though if they DO fix it }: )

Off topic kind of: Thank god we won't be seeing any more silly palemaster/red dragon disciples running around... or, even sillier, dwarven RDD's }: P

QuickLightning · Post by **QuickLightning** » Sun May 02, 2004 1:35 pm

I love the idea of a 4-man undead team, that would definitely make me one to play that PrC

Smurf · Post by **Smurf** » Sun May 02, 2004 2:57 pm

you can't have more than 30 lvls in a prestige class

Æ · Post by Æ » Sun May 02, 2004 3:08 pm

Oh didn't know that, never tried

Well still +14 natural AC is pretty damn sweet }: )

Thanos · Post by **Thanos** » Sun May 02, 2004 11:04 pm

Your giving up at lot to get 14 ac. I doubt a 40 level monster or pc is going to have a hard time hitting you. That why I wouldn't have a problem with dropping the ac bonus from the class. That ac is only going to really benefit a munchkin fighter/monk combo.

If your a 10 wizard/ 30 palemaster. Currently Yor caster level is 10. If they fix it how it is supposed to be your caster level would be 25.

Even at level 25 wizard strength All your spells will are going to resisted much more because you won't be able to penetrate mr. Basically it will be like a level 25 wizard fighting a level 40 monster. THats one reason why the class needs to be fixed. You know the level 20+ mobs are going to be loaded with MR and if you do get your spells through they are going to do a lot less damage.