Rant: NS4

[QuickLightning]

First off, I would like to say this mod exceeded my expectations by A LOT, this is the 2nd best world I've played in on NWN (following Avlis closely which is so well developed it's insane). But there are a few major problems mainly involving the community.

Realism...RPing? -
Correct me if I'm wrong but the goal was for this to be a more realistic server, yet the players are playing as if it is NS3.

I see people named things like "Weapon Creator of such and such" If we're playing on a "realistic" module...this sort of takes away all the realism whenever you see this player, really annoys me.

The shout channel is being used for random chats, invitiations to parties, ranting raving etc, now it is understandable within reason but some of it is a bit excessive and very few players are using the shout channel IC (in character), again, maybe I'm wrong...maybe NS4 is another powergaming uber "1337" module, in which case I was wrong to come back here.


The other issue the the massive player base...which is nice because you'll always have company, but the servers currently do not have support for this. The servers either crash or massive ammounts of players time-out every 15-30 mins. Twice today i've killed Tul'Gik with a party then the server crashes (or we all timed-out, whatever) come back and half the party is dead. Not only did we lose the loot we were distributing within the party, we also lost a lot of the experience we gained taking this cave out.


I understand it's beta etc, just my little rant Need to make up our minds to RP or not to RP.

[bongoblue]

human nature is hard to control...

I did see one person "[shout] ooops, sorry, that was meant to be private" when they made a mistake.

But the demands for someone to party with someone is undiminished.

It would be nice if there was a forum, either in these forums, or a game location in each city, where those looking for a party could team up.

Beta crashes... its sort of a given for beta software to crash.

Have you used the bug reporter ? That way the nice folks who spend their spare time getting things to work will have something to go on, and they can fix it.

[QuickLightning]

So far today I've heard people asking where the fastest places to level are, what bindstones are close to easy xp and other "speed" issues. It's really starting to get on my nerves. At one point an Okie was asking for an easy place to get xp...i tried to force him to RP by acting like I did not know of this word "leveling" up. He proceded to say something about my mom and that if he wanted to rp he'd go elsewhere...NS3 community *rolls eyes* this module needs to have a direction and rules, rping or not needs to be set in stone because they can not co-exist. RPers will become obsolete by the 1337 speaking powergamers and either future bosses will be too easy for the powergamers, or impossible for RPers

However, I have seen some hope of an RP community here. We had an invasion of a few foul wizards in the crossroads, myself and my companion slain one and then had a Call to Arms with quite a turnout to slay the other...very nice RPing that I did not expect...maybe there is hope for this world after all.

[Agent Shiny]

You know what... i DO NOT SEE anything that says NS4 is for RP... NO
it states you MAY want to be involved in the RP sense
or may NOT.

another fact is people are in transition with the environment of ns4 from ns3. so give it TIME.

[Qui]

The devs made it pretty clear throughout NS4 development and the release that this isnt an RP server, its not an ANTI-RP server either. ITs an action server, and they are leaving the freedom of rping or not in the ahnds of the players.. they wont be enforcing any rping.. The diea i think goes something like this.
The mod was made for people to have phun playing, if having an OOC name and talking in shout is what some peopel enjoy thats great, if you want to RP thats great, they dont have to be mutually exclusive.. its like.. just being tolerant of other peoples ideas on fun.

[Karma]

That is the issue at hand. I hear alot of things pissing you off Quick and it reminds me of the server vault I just quit playing. Alot of people on there are NOT tolerant and are a major pain b/c they think you have to share their opinion. While I agree with parts of what you said, it may be best to consider your words more wisely next time you rant. There is nothing wrong with being honest and sharing your ideas, but this server isn't listed in RP type and people have fun shoutting & partying. This is a social game, and quite frankly the RP'ers on NWN haven't the first clue what RP'ing really is.

-Karma, Forgotten Realms DM
since 1989

[QuickLightning]

About the server issues: Yeah, it is possible that there are bugs that are causing us all to timeout....but couldn't it also be the massive player base in which case we would need more hosts?

I did say correct me if I was wrong...why do the shopkeeps have times they're in/out, why the jobs etc if this is an RP server? factions? the huge storyline of the wars? whats all this stuff doing in here if it's not an RP server? I dont get it

The 2 can not co-exist, powergamers take every little advantage they can to make their char extreme...believe me i used to be one in trinity and NS3, I know.
RPers on the other hand prefer to build their char as he or she experiences things.

For example, a powergame would have max move silently/hide and would be able to sneak passed the RPer who has a mildly developed spot/listen skill without even the slightest bother. However an RPer with mildly move silently/hide would be spotted and killed instantly by max dmg dev criting "1337ers" the second they tried to sneak into anything. Powergamers have max health every level while an RPer would take what he gets. Powergamers would build their character with say 1 level of shadowdancer for the hide in plain sight ability and be the life of the party and yell out in shout, completely against what a shadowdancer is...

do you see where im going with all this? RPers are either going to get shafted and powergamers reign supreme with their 1337ness and this is going to turn into another NS3 at this rate.

[QuickLightning]

Also, it's rather hard to hold up an invasion in the RP sense if someones saying stuff like "I roxzor your boxzors and your mom" etc. The RPers and Powergamers WILL clash, it's unavoidable.

[Karma]

It most likely will turn into another NS3, if that means a powergaming heavy server. Today is my first day in Neversummer and I came from Divided Kingdoms, which is all about powergaming. Yeah I don't like it either, but there was a wise old show on TV that said, "You take the good, you take the bad, you take em both & there u have The Facts of Life" ROFL Anyways, you have good ideas but I think it's time you just admitted to yourself that online gaming communities are dominated by the under 20 yr old crowd. Anyways, maybe we could team up sometime as i can get into some quality RP. Have fun man, and don't sweat the small stuff.

[bongoblue]

I finally get it...

Most of you have never power gamed role playing characters.

Or role played power gaming characters.

It apears to be one or the other... but its not.

I used to game for hours, and still rp what was going on.

Or am I misunderstanding the phrase 'power gaming' ?

[Lothy]

Its a cruel fact of life that RPers are going to be killed by powergamers. Natural selection, so to speak. Inferior species/characters have to adjust or die out.

[Gil-Este]

I think it's time you just admitted to yourself that online gaming communities are dominated by the under 20 yr old crowd.

1) i'm not sure thats true at least on NS
2) you don't have to be over 20 to be a good RPer

in regards to the issue of PG vs RP at hand: here is my answer. noone who is a hardcore powergamer is going to read this forum and go "whoa, i've seen the error of my ways" and no hardcore roleplayer is going to say "forsooth! yon gamer of mighty power and lack of in character playing hath shown the true path." so in a nutshell, here is what I have to say (and yes i know this is kinda hypocritcal coming from me, but go figure):

You all have opinions. You think other people want to hear them. You're wrong.

EDIT: Woot! 100th post

[QuickLightning]

Karma, feel free to contact me anytime, characters with the last name of "Lightning" are most likely me. Right now I just have a ranger in the Last Alliance (neversummer bound)

Bongo, yes it is possible to powergame and RP at the same time but no one does it, people either go all out 1337 or are heavy RP and say rerolling dice, min/maxing etc are all bad to do. A char with say charisma and intel of 8 would never be able to carry on an intelligent conversation...who rps that? no one, yet 90% of the fighters here, I assure you do not have 10 charisma. Yeah you could forget the characters stats etc and rp him as just his class, but that is taking away so much of the RP sense it's sickening. In Avlis, for example, people would play ogres *yes ogres are playable there* and they would do actions such as *whipes snot and drool away from face and stares blankly at the little talking kobold* or whatever...it gives such depth to characters and brings them alive! THAT is the fun of rping, THAT is what so many of you are missing out on.

Anyndur Lightning was my character there, a struggling biased ignorant fighter/arcane archer. Base wisdom of 8, so I played him very ignorant to the real world. Intel of 12, he knew of the drow and hated them...even though the drow PCs were x2-x4 his lvl he shot at them and fled to the city for safe haven...base charisma of 10, he was not able to sway people in arguments very often, which made him more of a loner (I actually got him banned from one of the cities....for the drow shooting and incidents afterwards)...all of this has NOTHING to do with monster hunting...yet I spent weeks doing it and it was soooo much fun. I guess I'm going on a little too far here but I want you NS3ers to see the light that I did not see until recently. Character development is the KEY to D&D and NWN in escence. It is remarkable how much fun you have have sitting around chatting learning about other characters and developing your own...

when you can see someone running toward you and say oh he is such and such, from such and such forest and likes to hunt such and such and craft such and such (all based on the character not the player mind you)...

*sigh* sorry...im pretty tired right now and just going on and on so i'll stop there. I actually forgot the point I was trying to make (funny how that works) but I'm sure I said it in one of my earlier posts...I wish more of you would give RPing a better chance and make an effort...but I fear my struggle is in vain...

[QuickLightning]

erm...Gil, what you just said, in it's own right is an opinion...so as you said, you think i want to hear it? you're wrong

[Gil-Este]

i know note the part about it being hypocritical. basically i just wanted an opportunity to say that. thanks for giving it to me

i am totally in favor of RPing, but at the same time we have to recognize that this is NOT PnP D&D this is a computer game. In PnP you can go through an entire 9 hour session without rolling more than 20 dice (i've DMed it. it included a 2 hour barfight which consisted of 3 rounds). In a computer game its all about the numbers. at that point even if you are roleplaying you often (even without realizing it) ignore some of your character's stats and how that SHOULD theoretically influence your actions. min/maxing is a part of computer games. NWN is not D&D not matter how much it tries to be. roleplaying can be fun in both, but roleplaying has slightly less of a place in NWN than it does in non-computer games.