Minds of Magic

Aarkon Draco · Post by **Aarkon Draco** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:39 pm

this is the first thread in a series i want to do to discuss the various tips builds ect of the base classes. this thread is on Mages and Sorcerers. i personly dont play either class often so im no exspert. but thats the point of the thread to unlock the knowlage of the Arkane arts. so if you have tips on anything magic orented please post them here and also please keep the random spam off the thread.

ok onward

now in my exspierence making my first epic mage i found a coupple of things shocking upon reaching epic levels. undoubtedly the more exspierenced mage players will have a good laugh at my espense.

First and foremost IMO was the knowlage that the spells per level table stops at 20th period. i was under the impression that since all the other levels stop at 6 spells per level (well most do) that eventualy you would have 6 castable spells for every spell level. this is NOT the case so the only way to get more than 4 9th level if your a mage is either by a item that grants more or by making a specalist mage thus adding one extra spell per spell level. so your thinking ill go the Sorc route and have 6 right? well this may be true but you will also be limiting both your selectable feats and you will only have 3 9th level spells to choose from.

on to saves and DC

something that i overlooked or just didnt comprehend right was that Spell Focus feats do not stack if you have Epic Spell Focus Necromancy you will only recieve +6 to the DC of your Necro spells not 12 (SFN= +2 GSFN= +4
ESFN= +6 totaling 12 if they stacked) the formula for your final DC is as follows

DC= 10+spell level+ability modifier+feat bonus

IE a 10th level mage casting fireball with Greater SF Evocation and a int of 20 would have a DC of 22 (10 +3 level of spell + 5 int mod + 4 Greater spell focus evo) INT is used for mages CHa is for sorc and bards.

due to my schedual i have to stop short for now ill post more when i can.

i would also encourage others to add to this thread of things they found that work well class combos, spell choices ect. and please no spam hopefuly this and the other threads i am making will be stickyed or something so as to help others.

PeregrineV · Post by **PeregrineV** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:05 pm

I have a mage/socreror, obviously only for role-playing purposes, but it is lots of fun. I get *lots* of spells, but overall am underpowered for my level.

I think, but others can verify, that feats like spell focus taken as one class translate to the spells of the other. Not sure on the metamagic side, as I haven't tried those yet.

Also, as a spellcaster, I seem to run out of quickslots faster, as a spell is taken from either one class or another, even if it is the same spell.

One the plus side, I have almost every spell because the sorc side can scribe for the wizard side to memorize.

P. Fricebottle · Post by **P. Fricebottle** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:27 pm

I do not have this build, but I've seen plenty of others that do. I'm justing posting this here because its one of the basics, the self-buffing fighter. You take fighter/wizard/weapon master. This does not have to be the exact classes, but this one seems to work best. Wizard can learn spells, which is handy because you won't want to waste levels trying to learn them as sorcerers, and base intelligence 13 is also already needed for the weapon master.

You could mix it up a bit with fighter/bard/weapon master, or go red dragon disciple. But the main point of a self-buffing build is to solo, and so provide with a fighting type class for beating. Then a mage class for increasing yourself with buffs, and you could or not go weapon master for obvious reasons.

Elagneros · Post by **Elagneros** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:03 am

If you want a self-buffing fighter, make a cleric/WM. You get most of the same buffs, and you don't have to worry about casting in armor.

Aarkon Draco · Post by **Aarkon Draco** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 3:25 am

please keep comments to arkane caster classes and sutch only thanks

ok onward

i would like to know what diffrent people use for stats and races for their diffrent mages. my top mage is Eowin Cesef or somethin like that shes a sun elf and i started with 20 int 15 dex and 14 con the rest 10 for st and 8 for wis and cha. my thinking was pump dex till 18 then hit int the rest giving her a 27 base at level 40 (lvl 40 yeah right ) this is a mostly mage build i didnt think about monk levels and made her CG so that kinda hurt but rouge level i took at 24 not only gave me a feat at a level i shouldent get a feat at ( if you can exsplain this let me know) but also i pumped my tumble from 10 to 25 so 3 armor there. there are some flaws yeah but on the whole im rather please at her progression.

as you can tell shes mainly a caster and not mutch good for anything but that. so you get the general idea of what i ask for a build feel free to organise it better than mine tho i type from thought streams and tend to ramble.

i also want to touch on a build i havent yet made but its a intreaguing idea.

The Anti Mage

race: deep gnome for blur and sr
stats: pure mage build stats pump INT only
on wether to make it a generalist or a specalized im torn
key feats: SF Abjuration GSF abjuration ESF abjur quicken spell auto quick 3 levels Great Int for up to 10 if you can

as you can see this is designed to be a counterspell mage for say city or relic deffense. also with mord disju can debuff most advasarys easly given that the DC of morts disju will be near if not 40 at max level.

anyway its an idea i had.

comments? questions? post awya if its on mages or sorc builds, play, ect

P. Fricebottle · Post by **P. Fricebottle** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:07 pm

As for your build with the dex and intelligence, you shouldn't be pumping points into dex if shes a casting-only build. Sure it might help for dex, but intelligence is so much more important that the dex for a wizard. As for the Anti-Mage idea, you should specialize in a school (Illusion because Enchantment is so worthless in NWN) for the extra spell slot which is worth it (if you don't want illusion don't pick a specialized school that prohibits a good school like necromancy vs. divination). Just my opinion.

Post by **Binkyuk** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:27 pm

on your anti-mage:
don't make a deep gnome wizard. or frankly a deep gnome anything (though i've heard of good deep gnome fighters).
your +4 ac is absorbed by the Shield spell at level 1, blur is totally superceded by imp invis, meanwhile your +2 dex disappears if you cast empowered stat buffs (which i usually do for my important stats) or tensors transformation, while the con penalty is never exercised to its potential. if you really want SR go drow, you get darkness as a bonus which is quite awesome for mages.

why do you want SF: abjuration? what spells have a saving throw in abjuration school? or is this something to do with counterspelling?

Death Dealer1 · Post by **Death Dealer1** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 2:50 pm

everyone says enchantment is worthless.....that is until you are a fighter and fight a mage that dominates, confuses, charms you all they time....you can't fight if you can't move. abjuration is used for dispell checks, really effective with clerics and druids. don't worry about what anyone else thinks of your build because in the end its yours.

i have a wiz that is a specialist in necro, necro focused, and necro to death. she has no divination ie. true seeing, clair audi/voiya, premonition..she is however mixed with fighter and has all the auto stills so she has ac in the high 40's and can tank most moderate made fighters and clerics before she has to run or kill them outright.

counterspelling goes off the spells in your slots more than your stats so focus on having lots of different spells if you want to be a counterspell specialist. memorize what counterspells what and load in things that most people will cast more often.

Elagneros · Post by **Elagneros** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 5:01 pm

counterspelling goes off the spells in your slots more than your stats so focus on having lots of different spells if you want to be a counterspell specialist. memorize what counterspells what and load in things that most people will cast more often.

Along the same lines, a wizard is slightly better than a sorc for counterspelling, since he'll have a larger spell selection with which to block an opponent's spells.

Go'f · Post by **Go'f** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:05 am

can you limit the counterspelling to some spells only - I would love to be able to counterspell dispells, but most other things fall off me... how ever if you have dispellls in and select counterspell I believe the AI will counter spell EVERYTHING. (that is can)

Celorn · Post by **Celorn** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:52 am

That's right... sorcerers can actually be MORE effective at counterspelling any class - if you have lesser/dispell/greater dispell/mords available in as many spell levels as possible, you can counter any spell of the same level that you have the dispells in.

ie: even my bard can counterspell a ranger or paladin from casting their own unique class spells.

A wizard would have to have a lot of dispells memorized in as many slots as possible to counter the widest variety of spells, or else they would have to be countering another wiz or sorc AND have the same spells slotted.

P. Fricebottle · Post by **P. Fricebottle** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:31 pm

I'm surprised that no one has brought up the world's cheesiest arcane build we all know. The Shadowdancing Mages. I'm just listing this here to point out the obvious again, and I'm not suggesting going for cheesy like this.

For cheese purposes you go up in wizard for some levels until you got the improtant spellcasting feats (combat castin, spell penetration, etc. but mainly what you feel what feats your mage absolutely needs before you go for the cheese) hoarding points of course for the hide, move silently, and tumble skills to pour them in to. Then when you got your dodge, mobility, and arcane feats you go for shadowdancer.

This is really cheesy, but plenty have done it, because shooting powerful mage spells all day long and being able to disappear before you get hit. Of course true seeing and poured in spot points from a level of choice that has it can see through it.

If you want to role-play it you can go for a halfling who is too lazy to train for stealth and takes the arcane way out, but retains his natural rogue abilities to help him disorient his opponents in battle.

Aarkon Draco · Post by **Aarkon Draco** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:03 pm

all posts that inform are welcome wether it be no cheese or extra cheese.

to add to the extra cheese the Sorc pally sd build when done right is quite nasty you get the sd HIPS and the boosted saves of that High Cha. now cheese may be for you or it may not but that is betwien you and your hamburger .. or something like that