Cash for XP

[Terminal Insanity]

Taking "donations" for cash... omg.

1) It stops being a "donation"
2) Rich kids lvl 40! everyone else, lvl 25...
3) Illegal? I'm prety sure bioware said something about not accepting money for private NWN server usage (and i'd say that includes character levels, since bioware themselves sold lvl 21-40 as an extra themselves)

What happens when you take cash for XP:
Rich kid buys XP
Rich kid PKs people
Rich kid never learned to build his char for the mod and gets PKed by someone 20 lvls below them (its happened...)
Rich kid never learned how to fight with his char in this mod and gets PKed by someone 20 lvls below them (some more)
Rich kid gets annoyed that he cannot compete, even though he's 20 lvls above the real players
Rich kid also becomes bored since theres no goal for him to acheve in the game
Rich kid leaves
Regular player base is offended by this abuse
Regular player becomes annoyed that he's been playing NS before ns4 was even in development, and isnt even able to gain the same level as the kid that's been there for a month or two
Regular player leaves




Why bother playing, when all the rich kids are just going to buy their lvl 40? No point as far as i'm concerned... If i have to work for months to get lvl 20, and then some kid buys a lvl 40, sorry but thats bs. complete bs. i would use several stronger words besides "bs" if i knew the post wouldn't be deleted.

I understand you need donations, but you won't get them from any good players, only kids that don't want to work for their characters and are only interested in being biggest/fastest. I think NS turned into a rocky road shortly after GoN/Okies/Slaves left, and now with a clean player base, you make them an offer of XP for money, you are just attracting people that want to be powerful with nobody around as a reality check or even guide.

Keep accepting money for XP and the server is just going to empty out.
The only reason i came back after the 2 months is because Frostdale was FINALY put in... and it was promised to be massive and high level, wich it isnt. It took me all of 4 hours to stumble around every area of frostdale... solo'd the dragon at lvl 22 lmao and then the bosses give less XP then their guards, not to mention drops that i got at around lvl 15... and sunken, i havent been there, and i don't think i'm going to, now that i've read it's just another lvl 15-20 area that was put in to take a load off the faction cities... the reason i attack factions in the first place is because of the players... give me the same city without the players and you won't find me there.

If i wanted to fight mobs all day, i'd load the single player campaign, or download one

If i wanted to fight a bunch of LVL40s when the only possible level to acheve is lvl 25, well, i think this would be a great mod to start off at!


What COULD help, (not sure anymore, it might be too late) NS needs faster/more developers.
There is nothing more frustrating then knowing what is wrong with the game and knowing how you could probably fix it, while you wait months after months for some dev to finaly put the fix in...

I think the cleanup script is a good example of the dev team's focus...
Originaly there WAS no cleanup script, and it was MENT to be that way... i remember the first or second day i played closed beta, i posted 'items don't disappear when player leaves area' in the bug tracker and it was removed because the dev said it wasent a bug, it was a PW feature (wich i liked)
Now they've broken that feature because of an unrelated bug... Don't get me wrong, it was a heavily needed fix, but it doesnt work right, it doesnt work efficiently, and it breaks other things.


On player exit:
If players are still in the area, return 0
else, Set current area to be cleaned up in 2 minutes

Area cleanup:
If any players are in area, return 0
if nobody is in that area, gut it out!

It would only clean up when there has been no players in the area for 2 minutes, and it wouldnt clean it up untill someone DOES go through there and then leaves it for 2 minutes


ALSO, this kind of script shouldnt even be needed, why not just find out what it is that causes the area not to repop? it's probably just some variable not being set right when the dead player respawns (probably marked as still being there?) why not just fix that...

[JesterOI]

So basically Term is upset that people hop on with their level 40's and ruin his fun

As for only being able to attain level 25, that is wrong, you can very easily attain 30.
40 is technically possible since the CR>100 bosses are in.

[Mental]

You hit the spot term. Because since the new areas there is no one here. I just wish they didnt fix the exp thing so i could at least get to 40 that way.

[JesterOI]

Frostdale is like shooting fish in a barrel. The creatures are generally easy for their CR's, and are kind of boring because their difficulty lies in amount of HP not their combat ability (AB, AC, DC, Saves)
Also there isn't much adventure.
Having to travel a bit more to get to giant caves or efreet's would help a bit.

Before Frostdale/Sunken you had to travel to the different cities to raid them, was kind of fun in a way.

I think the cleanup script keeping areas working works just fine.
Having wipe timer set to 60 seconds countdown once the player transitions out or exits server is fine.

[DeputyDog]

We have accepted and received donations for over two years now.

Nothing has changed, We have always given xp or special treatment to people who donated. This was a way to streamline and clearly define how much time we would put into helping someone who is donating.

The cleanup script has always been there. It has been tweaked a few times, but the latest patch changed things somewhat.

We are very open to suggestions and to changing things.

We are talking about how to change the way pvp is and open it up to a free for all currently.

Any ideas to bring players in would help as well rather thing complaining about things.

[Lework]

I would gladly come back if lvl 40 were attainable without putting in 4hrs a level.

[JesterOI]

I have heard talk of Planar Areas, and am guessing that level 40 won't be easily obtainable till those areas are in, or possibly till any areas after the Planar Areas are put in.

[Terminal Insanity]

Any ideas to bring players in would help as well rather thing complaining about things.

You asked for it...



I would seriously consider releasing a ns4 dev kit, basic scripts that are required for an area to function within ns4, stuff like that

A page on how to create areas and mobs, i wouldn't expect (and wouldent want) the ns4 team to write tutorials, their time is better spent on the mod itself... just point links to offsite tutorials, or get some players to make tutorials...

As for actualy putting the areas in, there should be at least one dev that would look at a few areas each week (probably wil receve them alot slower then that though) and select one to be sanity checked and then inserted into the module...

custom area additions: (how i'd do it)
Player creates the module and makes a POLL thread in the 'player dev' forum
Dev sanity checks the mod, both for scripting exploits/bugs as well as BASIC look/feel
Dev adds the module with mobs but NO drops and NO xp
Players can access the new area via a special room somewhere... (maybe a place somewhere in the clouds? )
Players play and comment on the areas, DMs should also check em out...
Player would rate the area whatever they like (out of 5?)
if the DMs and players all like the new areas, add em in a more perminant spot, and give them drops/xp!

It would move the devs away from content creation, and more into expanding and fixing the module

It would bring the players closer to the devs, DMs and other players, creating a closer, friendlier, and more open relationship between them

The module would gain popularity simply because of the custom content.
A module that the PLAYERS build with the devs...

Perhaps allow player-created areas to use the CEP? That would also bring in alot of people... (although, CEP drops would be questionable, since they leave the CEP areas with the player... but that could be a good thing, make a script that stripts CEP items when the player leaves the CEP area, this way you could make uber plot items just for that area *vorp* and not have to worry about it contaminating the PvP or rest of the world)



PvP:
Stop item drops on enemy turf, or just limit it to the CITY itself, not the surrounding area. This is horrible. but i like it... i just wish i picked a more popular XP faction so i'd have someone to defend my city from... (sleeth) o_O

Since people don't like the idea of PKing low levels, but still want to keep the PvP free...
We have avendell, wich is a nice base for lvl 10-20...
Frostdale seems like a realy nice step up in terms of access to areas... and is a nice spot for lvl 20-30 (once higher lvl areas get dropped near frostdale that is)
And, i'd suggest a nice little spot in the sky somewhere =) for the lvl 30-40s to hang out

This would group player levels together for PvP as well as XP, keeping the lvls generaly seperated. Rules shouldn't be made to limit pvp, it should just be left free, just lead the players to where you want them with XP, we'll follow... ESPECILY when the mod gets more popular... i wont be fiending around NS city for some random kills anymore =D




Donations
for XP is just plain wrong =/
I completly love the idea of providing rewards for players, but those rewards shouldnt be things that advance the character or give him abilities that other players cannot acheve.

My suggestions:
- wing/tale/skin mods

- race mods (so i can make a lizardman!, obviously only visual, no stat change)

- Customized Item Generator! Let the player submit his own custom robes/armor/helm/shield/weapon/etc, NO stats on the items, they should be given the properties of the most powerful item of the same type that drops in-game, and give them a device that will create these items for the player once per day. Just let him have his uniform =P (maybe only useable by the player that made it? or at least his login...)

- Access to vote on what part of the game gets worked on next (yeah i know the devs will always hate this one lol) let the players vote for the features they want... Same reasons as wayyy up above (player/dev/dm relationship) Maybe allow all of ns community to suggest, then the DMs stick em in a donator-only forum as a big poll, and everyone gets to vote what feature they want first Should be re-done once 3 or 4 of the features are completed, or other suggestions pop up that the DMs feel would be more important to the players as well (and if they arnt, they just wont vote =P) these polls shouldent be too frequent, maybe once a month? once every two months? make a news post about it, or put a little calender on the front page marking the days these polls are done

- Teleportation Device (usable only during non-combat) should be able to teleport the player to his home city, bind, avendell, frostdale, or the sky (provided he has the required levels, if there will be required lvls for these areas) or any other interesting areas that may pop up during the development of the mod... Usage of these should be limited to like 10 times a day, for free.

- A statue in the donator's name in the place of his choosing (within eye-pleasing reason) Let the player choose how his statue looks, (could be done just as a npc that looks like the player, non killable, stoned, frozen, etc, description should be whatever the player wants also


Guilds
Guilds, once established with more then 5 members playing should be allowed to have custom guild gear, and their own HQ.

(Not realy in the dev's hands:) Guilds should spread out, don't all allign against one faction, don't all group up and have a party for poor nomius. Be aggesive, be Defensive, whatever. but don't ally with just about every other guild. Guilds should only be allied with one, MAYBE two other guilds. FIGHT and protect against what you belive is your territory. EXPAND your territory, MAKE areas belong to you. Claim the area as yours and demand toll for passage, at the very least, for your enemys...

Players will want to join your guilds when they see your power. Non-Guild players will want protection from evil players and join a good guild, or they'll want to slaughter good players and join an evil guild, or of course, you can always choose to be a tree hugger too...

Guilds will hold the player base together AND grow it. Word of mouth, something to do/kill in-game and make it less boring. And guilds shouldn't get too big... try not to make 'for anyone' guilds... we need at least 5 seperatte guilds, hopfully maintain around 20 guilds total once the player base starts to grow... maybe start off with one or two right now...

Here's an idea: DMs create 2 War-ing guilds right now. RP it up realy good with a story line for each guild, why they hate why they love, why they hug, let players post in the forums (one created for each guild) and let them decide what one they want to join. After enough people have decided, the DMs should make a poll in them to choose a leader for the guild, or just let a DM run it for now... Players then should get specific item for that guild (just a nice helm for now should be fine, just colored different, and not seen anywhere else) , so it's easy to tell who belongs to what guild... (this is why custom guild sets is helpfull)
Unleash them upon the world! Let em fight it out.

LET THE LVL 40 PK THE LVL 1! And let the lvl 1 shout for help (and hopfuly not make a cry out of it) for his fellow guild members to help him, at least one should respond. Players should be instructed that they should ignore any previous KOS/Hate/[censored]-ons they have with any fellow guild members. If they can't live with them, then they should go find another guild.
Hell, even Text Macros bound to a hotkey stating what faction you're on ("Hail! I'm from Asshattian Assasination Apes!") Let people know who you are and what guild you're from, they might wanna join =P point them to your guild's forum!!! tell them to look on the site! the guild forums should be open for public viewing (unregistered users included)

Perhaps, if all goes well, and the DMs are pleased with the progress, they could hold a big final fight between the two guilds, if we could organize them to come on at a specific time anyways... or at least take as many as we can pair up and stick em together for a battle =P Rewards for the winner! =P Even if you died, as long as your faction wins, let everyone be happy.

As for player-created guilds, i'd suggest for now, even make non-game related guilds, like a guild for skaters, or a guild for drunks, whatever, just get some guilds up so theres some more fighting and unification



Buliding a Player Base
Guilds, as stated above, helps this out ALOT. So do rewards, and gifts...

I remember when i was looking for a new mod to play in, when i first found NS... i was running around lost ready to give up, and a DM gave me a little sword with i think it was fire on it? anyway, it sliced prety nice for about 5 lvls, it was still hard, no free ticket, but it helped alot, and i never saw anyone have a sword like mine =o but probably because nobody wanted to use them lol gifts like these should be given out by hand by the DMs to new players as they see them (maybe nodrop?), let the player fight a bit and if he dies, just create a weapon infront of him, don't even make yourself visible unless you realy wanna do some rp/quest/whatever... Just basic noob drop item, but with a little extra power, and hopfully nice visual appeal

An intro when a new character joins... A few signs in the faction-choice area, one to explain factions, one to expalin rules, one for PvP info. Suggest checking site for open guilds.

Stats. Lots of stats! I'm not sure how the log files look, do they include kills? spell casting? what?! I want to see stats for most popular spells, player most killed, player that kills the most, player with highest single-hit damage, highest single-spell damage, most disarms, most-killed mobs, etc etc etc, if it's all logged, then it should be fairly simple to parse with a perl script, and could be done off the servers... i'd suggest looking into shfs (ssh filesystem, you can mount a directory over a ssh client and use it like normal, good for logging to a remote system) only a kernel module is needed on the client's end. the server need only run sshd. log em to a smaller box and process the stats once a night? or just stick em directly into another mysql db on another server (i stress another server, doesnt have to be powerfull, but perl is an ugly hog)
This also gives players another goal... to be the best/have the most/etc, keeps people around, they have something to compete for.



etc:
Other stuff i'd like to see...

"Head of <player>"
you get one every time you kill someone, and it should have the player's level on it, or visibly different for level ranges, so they could eventualy be used for something usefull... make them a usable item... you select the action, and then click a spot on the ground where you'd like to put a pike and head of your victem! Should stay around till server reset. Let your guild plant the heads of it's victems around it's territory lol the head should not be able to be picked up again, and should still keep the victem's name so people can see exactly who the unfortunate foe was

Bounty Board / Recruit Board
Let players use a web interface to post notes on an in-game placeable. There should be one in every major city (avendell/frostdale) and should all display the same information. Posts are automagicly deleted after 5 real days or something (not on server reset!) Can you just make the web form drop the info into a plain text file, and then get nwn to read it and display it as the placeable's description? damn just script a sql query in the page and set the placeable's description right from there heh



ehh thats enough for me heh, i'll post more as they come to me o_O

[Flailer]

Holy buffer overflow!

[Terminal Insanity]

to get more people playing...

Get the devs to release that ns4 dev kit, let us try it out with 1 or 2 areas just to make sure its easily do-able, and then lets all (players included) head to the nwn.bioware.com forums and just start talking about the module, only one thread needed, just need some player to post 'hey this pw lets players create areas and the devs put the areas in and let everyone play in' or something, and just each of us post a comment on what we find good about ns4, people will come find out...

[Draebor]

Term, I think you could have attained at least level 30 in the time it took to type those posts. Having said that, I agree with a lot of your suggestions and have a few of my own:

-Donations should earn you the right to influence the direction of the game (ie voting, area or item development, etc...). Donations should NOT allow you to sidestep the actual game experiences of leveling and finding powerful items.

-To avoid stagnation and encourage team play, the server needs special events. Special events ROCK, and almost everyone enjoys them. If the DMs don't have time to do regular events, take volunteers. I'll volunteer right now. Need some event ideas? We're all creative... use your player base as more of a resource. If we're posting here we're obviously willing to spend time to help make the game better.

-The economic system needs work. The crafting system is great... make more use of it. There should be some kind of a marketplace where players can go to sell crafted and/or collected items. Maybe just a message board in a neutral town (Avendell, City of TRADE perhaps) where crafters can advertize.

-Put out a call to create some new clans and/or groups... offer each clan one of the numerous empty and unused houses around the mod as a base of operations once they reach a certain target membership. This will encourage people to recruit and give players something to lose if they stop playing.

-Oh... and fix Familiars/Animal Companions, please. This may not encourage more players but it will really make the lower levels easier on classes with those abilities.

[DrakhanValane]

We're all creative... use your player base as more of a resource.

Speak for yourself. I'm as creative as a pet rock. :)

[TheBestDeception]

-To avoid stagnation and encourage team play, the server needs special events. Special events ROCK, and almost everyone enjoys them. If the DMs don't have time to do regular events, take volunteers. I'll volunteer right now. Need some event ideas? We're all creative... use your player base as more of a resource. If we're posting here we're obviously willing to spend time to help make the game better.

Although I was temporarily away from the game, I am back. As a result, random questing will be put in to full swing as soon as practical. However, upon glancing at the servers recently, there does not appear to be a huge consituancy ... as seen in the posts about such. Therefore, nothing yet can be done on a large scale until there is a large scale to work with.

For those still around: expect anything....

[Terminal Insanity]

and now i'll finaly get banned

[JesterOI]

Term has too much time on his hands...