As i was defending my faction today someone told me that the devs where planing on taking hips out of the game. Is this true? iI for one injoy playing rogues and come on guys .... hips is so easy to beat. Just throw some points into spot . Use detect mode. Cast true seeing . Run away (when your in hide you can't move very fast) . Thats like taking knockdown away from fighters or spells away from clerics lol . And tell me why so many people feel the need to cuss at you after you killed them protecting your faction city? did these people not understand thats what this mods about? i played many chars and with this new one i'm working on i wanted to follow more of an RP role with him and what i get is people cussing at me. Sometimes i think everyones smoking crack or something lol.
Not my fault you didn't decide to protect yourself from hidden foes.......
Trent
HIPS overpowered?
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Quiett
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Ok Trent, I'm kinda confused by you now. Didn't I Pk you once or twice in Menzo defending my town, then you went off on me saying 'I hate you Dude, I was tryin to lvl my char' etc, etc, etc. If I'm wrong, please correct me, but it sounds like you're complaining about something you did to me.
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Re: HIPS overpowered?
trent wrote:As i was defending my faction today someone told me that the devs where planing on taking hips out of the game. Is this true? iI for one injoy playing rogues and come on guys .... hips is so easy to beat. Just throw some points into spot . Use detect mode. Cast true seeing . Run away (when your in hide you can't move very fast) . Thats like taking knockdown away from fighters or spells away from clerics lol . And tell me why so many people feel the need to cuss at you after you killed them protecting your faction city? did these people not understand thats what this mods about? i played many chars and with this new one i'm working on i wanted to follow more of an RP role with him and what i get is people cussing at me. Sometimes i think everyones smoking crack or something lol.
Not my fault you didn't decide to protect yourself from hidden foes.......
Trent
LOL! OMG Trent you just bit the biggest fish lure ever. I said that just to play with you in-game rofl. This is better tho
But the fact is, someone with 20 in spot AND true seeing did try to see you...but couldn't
And ya, the bug is bad with yer build. We can't do ANYTHING but walk away with the way the que gets cleared
Violence will not be tolerated. Surrender or be destroyed.
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deathdearler1
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Ok Trent, I'm kinda confused by you now. Didn't I Pk you once or twice in Menzo defending my town, then you went off on me saying 'I hate you Dude, I was tryin to lvl my char' etc, etc, etc. If I'm wrong, please correct me, but it sounds like you're complaining about something you did to me.
as i recall ... i said that about your death attack .... lol that sucked .... i tried to reason with you and after that failed then i went to war with you . i never once cussed at you and called you names. you where protecting your faction . i had fun trying as well . you killed me ... i killed you ... i wsn't too happy with the fact you teamed up with nomuis but what can ya do eh...... my new build isn't turning out so good .... and another sd 2 lvls higher walked into ns city and showed me my hide was indeed still crap. i had no chance with him . he could see right through it! .... explain that? maybe its the fact i choose a shortbow as his primary weapon .... can't seem to locate a better one than the willow one you can buy in avendell so i have been trying out the crafting .... anyway its all in the game . seems as though when i log in everyone and there mom comes to invade ns city and poor little lvl 19 Frum is left standing alone agaist them all . lol last night i even cried out to the gods for support but i think they must have been busy . i did manage to kill a few but that was at the cost of my own life .... killed about 40 times . Well still after all that i wanna keep at this new char and see where it goes ......
Trent
The big problem with living off of hips is that its alot easier to get a high spot than it is to get a high hide and move silently...
Being the owner of that 2 level higher sd I can tell you that I nave invested every possible thing I could into my hide and move silently...maxed skill for my level, stealthy feat, skill focus _and_ epic skill focus in both...armor with +to hide, boots with +to hide and move silently, pure dex...even with all that any cleric or druid around my level that has points in spot can see me pretty easilly...
Lets take a quick look at how things break down in NS for a SD...
43 hide and move silently at level 40 base skill
+10 lets say from dex (thats a 30 dex, its possible to go higher for a few more points)
+10 from items
up to another +15 if you have stealthy, skill focus and epic skill focus
Thats a total of 78
Now lets take a look at the other side...spotting
43 spot
+10 from clairvoyance
+20 from true sight
lets be modest and say +10 from wisdom
+7 from helmet
For a total of 90...and I have seen characters with a spot over 100 when buffed on NS...oh, and if they really wanted to be anti-SD they could take skill focus and/or epic skill focus in spot or listen as well as alertness for up to another +15...oh and if they are an elf they dont even have to enter detect mode
I dont know about the druid/shifter dragonshape, but I know npc dragons (and several other creature types) have a form of true seeing which cuts right past stealth mode. Just try to go raid Sleeth as an SD...I wish ya luck, every single NPC in that town has the mentioned true sight...well maybe not Elvin
Garagoth and Melencia can be a real pain too as several things in those cities have it as well, Menzoduran can be challenging if you arent pure stealth...all those drow priestesses around with their keen senses and true sight spells.
To be a successfull SD you gotta have something to boost your hide and move silently, cant just live off one...and you will need more than just points in the skill and some dex if your planning on using it in PvP instead of just against npcs. Going with a bow is a good option, especially if your up against a non-spotter like my dwarf you were poking holes in, I would definately recommend picking up a backup melee weapon on two though. I carry 4 different sets of weapons on mine, 1 for each slashing, piercing, and bludgeon, as well as a shortbow for playing sniper with.
Arashi
Being the owner of that 2 level higher sd I can tell you that I nave invested every possible thing I could into my hide and move silently...maxed skill for my level, stealthy feat, skill focus _and_ epic skill focus in both...armor with +to hide, boots with +to hide and move silently, pure dex...even with all that any cleric or druid around my level that has points in spot can see me pretty easilly...
Lets take a quick look at how things break down in NS for a SD...
43 hide and move silently at level 40 base skill
+10 lets say from dex (thats a 30 dex, its possible to go higher for a few more points)
+10 from items
up to another +15 if you have stealthy, skill focus and epic skill focus
Thats a total of 78
Now lets take a look at the other side...spotting
43 spot
+10 from clairvoyance
+20 from true sight
lets be modest and say +10 from wisdom
+7 from helmet
For a total of 90...and I have seen characters with a spot over 100 when buffed on NS...oh, and if they really wanted to be anti-SD they could take skill focus and/or epic skill focus in spot or listen as well as alertness for up to another +15...oh and if they are an elf they dont even have to enter detect mode
I dont know about the druid/shifter dragonshape, but I know npc dragons (and several other creature types) have a form of true seeing which cuts right past stealth mode. Just try to go raid Sleeth as an SD...I wish ya luck, every single NPC in that town has the mentioned true sight...well maybe not Elvin
Garagoth and Melencia can be a real pain too as several things in those cities have it as well, Menzoduran can be challenging if you arent pure stealth...all those drow priestesses around with their keen senses and true sight spells.
To be a successfull SD you gotta have something to boost your hide and move silently, cant just live off one...and you will need more than just points in the skill and some dex if your planning on using it in PvP instead of just against npcs. Going with a bow is a good option, especially if your up against a non-spotter like my dwarf you were poking holes in, I would definately recommend picking up a backup melee weapon on two though. I carry 4 different sets of weapons on mine, 1 for each slashing, piercing, and bludgeon, as well as a shortbow for playing sniper with.
Arashi
To Arashi,
While all this is true (easy to get high spot), one must keep in mind that the true cheapitude and uberpowerization of HIPS comes from the fact that you can hide while spotted. Whoops, found a cleric with lots o spot? That's ok, just click the damn hide a few more times, you'll get it eventually! Also, I'm not sure all clerics get clairvoyance (isn't it a domain spell?). In table DnD this is balanced by the fact that you can only hide once per round (which sorta works in NWN, but only sorta).
Also, as far as getting all 43 spot ranks for a cleric, it sucks attempting to ammas that many skill points. INT is rather useless for a cleric who is a caster or melee type (except maybe 13 to be a WM), and therefore a cleric is far less likely to get the needed skill points to max spot and have a decent listen.
In short, both sides of the equation are hard to max well (that is the point of char builds, exactness is needed), but the main feature of HIPS that breaks the game is the rehide ability.
While all this is true (easy to get high spot), one must keep in mind that the true cheapitude and uberpowerization of HIPS comes from the fact that you can hide while spotted. Whoops, found a cleric with lots o spot? That's ok, just click the damn hide a few more times, you'll get it eventually! Also, I'm not sure all clerics get clairvoyance (isn't it a domain spell?). In table DnD this is balanced by the fact that you can only hide once per round (which sorta works in NWN, but only sorta).
Also, as far as getting all 43 spot ranks for a cleric, it sucks attempting to ammas that many skill points. INT is rather useless for a cleric who is a caster or melee type (except maybe 13 to be a WM), and therefore a cleric is far less likely to get the needed skill points to max spot and have a decent listen.
In short, both sides of the equation are hard to max well (that is the point of char builds, exactness is needed), but the main feature of HIPS that breaks the game is the rehide ability.
While all this is true (easy to get high spot), one must keep in mind that the true cheapitude and uberpowerization of HIPS comes from the fact that you can hide while spotted. Whoops, found a cleric with lots o spot? That's ok, just click the damn hide a few more times, you'll get it eventually!
i tested that over and over again and its just not true. if another char has enough to see you they WILL see you no matter how many times you click on hide. the problem is if you keep clicking on hide it stops all spells directed at YOU and will make it a pain for anyone to target you for any reason.
HIPS really isn't all that powerfull ..... sure someone with hips could take down a pure fighter build if lucky enough not to get hit with a kd other than that almost every other build can own a rogue easy enough. ROGUES HAVE NO SAVES! well reflex yes but other than that your just sol. just throw a Wail or emplosion near a rogue and watch em die fast . The only way for a rogue to beat a high lvl sorc or clreic or druid is to follow that char and wait for them to rest and or run out of high lvl spells (and thats if you get lucky enough to catch them with no wails to throw) .
I think alot of things still need a good nerf ......... maybe some stuff to up the saving throws for rogues and or bring down the dc of a few spells.....
Frum protected Last allinance and did an good job at it for being lvl 25. but i have found that one seems to make ALOT of enemies doing it. I guess the mentality of the people that play seem to be more on easy xp then protecting there faction witch brings me back to an idea i had posted a while back "OUTCASTS SHOULD NOT RECIVE XP" untill they have rejoined there faction. I think that might cut down alot of the random pking and force people into a faction type play like there used to be a long time ago. I can't even log on anymore without someone hunting me . i called it quits after i went through hell protecting ns city just to be pked by someone of my own faction with in its walls the other day . I'll be back when ns4 gets out of beta or there are some epic areas put in. i have like 5 chars around lvl 25 cause at lvl 25 there isn't anything left to do with them other than kill rats (and i find killing rats for a month to get to lvl 40 a worthless waste of time) so i make a new char and try to do some real beta testing . I did however really injoy the mod and would like to thank all the devs and DM's for there hard work and effort in creating the best mod ever
p.s sorry but i've been drinking ... *this beer is for the dev and dm team of ns4* keep up the good work guys .-
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trent wrote:i tested that over and over again and its just not true. if another char has enough to see you they WILL see you no matter how many times you click on hide. the problem is if you keep clicking on hide it stops all spells directed at YOU and will make it a pain for anyone to target you for any reason.
Here's the deal: if an SD hides, all actions against him are cancelled, regardless of the spot/listen vs stealth check. This is nullified, though, if the spotter/listener is using detect mode, which is how my cleric was constantly able to cast spells on you.
Elves, of course, are always in detect mode, giving them a much easier time in keeping track of you.
So, while this is technically a bug, it is reduced to merely being an annoyance by working around it.
trent wrote:I think alot of things still need a good nerf ......... maybe some stuff to up the saving throws for rogues and or bring down the dc of a few spells.....
In the name of balance, NO! If you wanted higher saves, do what everyone else does and MULTICLASS! Do not expect a single class (except Paladin or Monk) to give you uber saves in everything; it shouldnt. You went for high sneak attack damage with lots of rogue...the cost of such single-mindedness was your fort and will. Your loss.
trent wrote:(and i find killing rats for a month to get to lvl 40 a worthless waste of time)
It takes nowhere near a month at the current rate of XP. by getting to 25, you have done the hard part. If you truely wanted to be an effective deterrant to NS City, the smart thing to do would be to suck it up and lvl Frum more.
HiPS ain't that over-powered.... Not now my level 24 wiz/monk/rogue can buff his Spot to 74. It'll go even higher when I take another rogue level around 35 (or 40th!). Yeah it's cheesy I have lots of Disc and Spot (and spent feats on Epic Skill Focus....), but hey, so is HiPS!
DIE EVIL SHADOWDANCERS!!! DIE!!!!
ph3ar my l33t Bigbies and maxed IGMS.
DIE EVIL SHADOWDANCERS!!! DIE!!!!
ph3ar my l33t Bigbies and maxed IGMS.