Balance

[Spura]

While people post all over this forum about how nerfed mages are, they don't see how bad it is for non cleric non paladin melee. I am talking here about the fact that monsters have a ton of physical resistances. For example if you have blunt weapon then ANY giants(tres smashers, mountain giants and the like) will absorb 25% 10/-. For me that mean I do 1-3 damage per hit. That's right I am a STR build and I do 1-3 damage per hit. Then I used cone of cold scroll and I did 30. The only melee that does good damage with blunt are clerics and paladins. Cleric does 7 fire and 5 magical. Fighters, barbarians, rangers, monks, bards on the other hand do squat damage. Of course the solution is obvious. Use different type of damage. But here are 2 problems.
1 Sometimes they are resistant to all 3 types.
2 Cost in feats to specialize in 3 weapons is high. Also WMs have REAL problems with that.
What I would like to do is ask DMs to go easy on physical resists. If they used 25% 10/- in pre epic, it makes my head ache just to think what they'll use at lvl 40. 50% 30/- ??

These resists are just one more reason why mage vs non cleric fighter matchup isn't balanced. The only thing my lvl 20 ranger got through when hitting buffed lvl 20 mage is a bit of acid damage.

This brings up another thing. Some people whined that mages can't do anything in PvP cos of heal potions and that heal potions should be removed. Well consider this. My lvl 20 ranger dies to 2 maxed IGMS of lvl 20 mage. Mage can be a SD and first IGMS can be fired a mile away, then there's bigby.... I do about 4 damage per hit to mage and he does 130 damage per cast to me. Heal potions is all fighters have in situations like that. High level mage with lots of PM levels has crit immunity, can cast in full plate and has huge AC bonus from PM levels+concealment. Stick in a fighter level at the end for discipline and there you have it. Nearly unhittable, when you hit it is for 1-5 damage if you aren't a cleric and hard to knock down. Epic mage armor currently boosts AC by A LOT since we only have +3 available.

[WillPower]

Dude we are going in circles with this - Lets stop repeating ourselves...

Let this rest until the devs decide what to do - I believe everyone has posted their thoughts already...

BTW - if your doing 1-3 damage to giants you have either not levelled your char enough to fight them or have not built a good giant-fighter... each type of character build has a good spot for levelling... not all builds work everywhere great.

If your melee, then you are only complaining about your jealousy of casters. If youve at least played some casters to levels above 20 then you are posting knowledgable opinions... lets keep people from complaining and start gettin them posting opinions...

[ATI]

I've been talking about the problems with melee characters for a long time now....no one seemed to care though

[Cobol]

the solution is dont let the spell casters level.. kill them on site... lol

[Kerothennesen]

I being a pure ft, know exactly what Spura is talking about.

I see NS is now (in my opinion) plagued with uber-builds that make the older, original classes completely obsolete, even in thier areas of specialty.

For instance, I have partied with a Barbarian/Bard/RDD, and while fun, it made me feel sick to my stomach, because at lvl 13, he had 28 BASE strength, and was going to get a +4 increase in it his next level as RDD. I know that Bioware meant for the prestige and multiclasses to be used, but this is a prominent case of ABUSE. I know absolutely, without a doubt, that this Uber-barb, who shall remain nameless, could kill me without using a single potion, even if i had 10 heals, just because of the ridiculous strength and HD feats a RDD gets to make Sorcs/bards more balanced with fighter classes.( He was my same lvl and was almost equally outfitted)

This is the same type of problem with fighters vs. spellcasters, but i know that mages were probably meant to be the main PVP class in the original NWN. As the prestige classes were added though, it made multi-classing a must to make the most powerful char. imaginable, and it detracted from the good-ol' build of late, the fighters that could use any weapon, or the barbarians with the modest dex. bonuses.

My belief was that NS was a party-oriented server, but these multiclassers need absoultely no help fighting ogres and whatnot, even if its a boss or if they are singular spellcasters, which should have to have some support in terms of a fighter class to survive hordes of melee enemies.

Sorry for the long post, but i was happy to find a thread that related to the problems i have noticed.

And yes, I'm going to be a hippocrit and make a multi-class uber build so I CAN fight spellcasters, but I'll be happy for darn sure when the char. wipe comes, to wash the filth of cheapness off me.

[JesterOI]

Then don't specialize in anyone weapon.
My fighter has only 3 weapon feats, improved crit. in warhammer, rapier, scimitar, he has no problems.
What happens when I come across an enemy that is highly resistant to all 3? I switch to one of my weapons that has decent elemental damage on it (jaz scim) and a large crit range. Not much problem doing damage.

Think about your character build. Things are fine, just use some strategy/tact and teamwork, it's too easy.

[HealingBreeze]

I'm just a basic fighter/RDD, but I have no real problems fighting giants and their like. The key is just what JesterOI said: don't only use one weapon, then you'll be more adaptable.

[Acce]

...

For instance, I have partied with a Barbarian/Bard/RDD, and while fun, it made me feel sick to my stomach, because at lvl 13, he had 28 BASE strength, and was going to get a +4 increase in it his next level as RDD.

.....

I've seen someone even nastier, a dualwielding kurki weaponmaster with darkfire enchantements on his weapons.... (couple of months ago)

Seriously, My Twohander Barbarian/bard/RDD was just following him around like I was his his squire or something while he was totaly vanquishing all giants the he came across (His crits was around 80 if I remember correctly, around 1/3 of his damage came from the darkfire and he made loads of them with his 10-20 crit range)
Of course this build will be very weak against some types of monsters...


Anyways, personally I feel that some creatures are pretty hard to hurt, but on the other hand it makes ppl to group I suppose.

[Spura]

Darkfire=cleric

I think I mentioned it, they have NO problems at all since they get 13 or so elemental and magical damage

[deathdearler1]

i personally think all the disputes about the new uber builds is likely to come sreaching to a halt when the epic areas come into play. just remember that what they are soloing now is nothing compared to what will come. as far as i can tell all the high lvl epic char's are hanging out on giant mountain fighting for scraps, and u can out lvl any area very quickly. i really haven't seen anyone fighting the 2 dragons that exist so far, but i'm sure if they did they might need a pal or 2.

[Hulgaru]

Look, no matter what someone says about "Level a caster to 20, then come back and talk" and "Caster Envy" there will always be caster envy.

Why?

Elemental and Magic damage. Physical Damage resists are bypassed by elemental damages.

Solution?

Maybe have some mobs with mad elemental and magic resists and high ACs but with only slight physical damage resists? Have more counter-magic bards in mobs?

Is there some way to script mob sorces and wizzies to countermagic if they have meatshields? That would strike me as a valid tactic...

And as a final note, until I think of more.... shouldn't this thread be under the suggestions forum?

[Throst54]

YES
i think tehre should be an implemnted balance skill also.

[Brennan068]

Oh! oh! and swimming too! Hell, swimming has been a skill since the days when characters all carried 10' poles around to check for traps

[Throst54]

and what about bluff? "no Mr okie, you really do not want to kill me"

[DrakhanValane]

But throst, Bluff actually IS in NWN. I thought you were looking for new skills? ;)