PvP against enemies

[ATI]

Today, Okie Rubbs said some things that upset me, I set out on a quest to kill okie rubbs because of what he said. As I tried to find him others also joined my cause to find Rubbs. Well Suffice it to say that Rubbs died at the end of our confrontation. So far this is cool. However this is the part that isn't cool, afterwards nearly 7 people were outside were rubbs was to kill him, and they continually killed him at his spawn point about 10 times, from what I heard from Rubbs.

This isn't right. In my quest for righteousness, I had simply sought to take out Rubbs once and end the confrontation. Even though Okies are despised by many, it is not okay to treat okies in the same manner we treat other people.

For future reference here are my guidelines to fighting. I prefer to fight one on one. When i was fighting and looking for rubbs, okie timeberlake joined and attacked me, which I was cool with, but then others came because of their personal problem with timberlake. This confrontation seemed un even. And also, there was no way for me to kill timberlake. I didn't ask for help in killing him though, mainly because my target was Rubbs, not timberlake.

here is the list:

I will try my hardest to have one on one fights

I don't hunt people for no reason

People I hunt must KNOW that I am hunting them before I ever try to kill them

I fight only the person I came to kill. After that my deed is done and there is no more need to fight.

I don't hold grudges. I know i used to but it has no point anymore.

Also, Just because you are someones enemy doesn't mean you can't show respect for your enemy.

If someone griefs the person I am hunting, I will stop hunting my original target andwill kill the other person. its wrong to interfere with someone else's combat and I will not tolerate people doing that to me.

If I have wrongfully killed someone, either by accident or by breaking rules, I will instantly do my best to provide a full ressurect to that person with my apologies. (like when I killed Elise today in avendell, forgot the no PvP in avendell rules)

These are my rules of engagement, and I will keep to them strictly so that what happened to rubbs today happens no more. I know he's an okie and (i can't believe im defending an okie) he is like all the other okies, but that doesn't mean respect and humanity should be thrown aside while hunting okies. As a warning, if that happens again I will try and kill those that grief other players, even if the griefed player is an okie.

Enough said.

[Lework]

Okies are not like other people, so they should not be treated as such.

I think okies are annoying and do not help neversummer at all, they run around killing/exploiting newbies when they can and run when someone their own level try to fight them..I know not ALL okies do this, the okies i know are cool i dont KOS. I know okies run hang around LA hide and kill newbies as they use a gate.

when I was a low lvl wiz fighting formians a fighter okie would kill me just to get the xp he "deserved"

If you are an okie you have chosen a certain path, you have to be prepared to deal with the abuse and unfair treatment. Okies would do the same to you if they could...

[Silent Bob]

I agree with Lework
(I should point out I was partied with the group that lynched Rubbs outside NS Temple I killed him twice inside the temple whilst i was buffing but no more, couldn't bring myself to grief, even an Okie)

Okies do quite literally ask for it by calling themselves Okies, the worst griefers aren't Okies, but the Okies are more easily recognisable and as such they get targetted. I will try to kill Okies on site because I know that they would and have done the same to me.
If NS4 is a PvP server then we have to kill the Okies because they're allowed to PK the newbs and no-one else will protect them other than the higher level players.
I've seen instances of worse behaviour, and many times Okies have been involved.

I for one would like to see a little more 'Divine intervention' when a dm is on. It's all very well having a quiet word with the offender, but people need to see justice or they'll seek it themselves. It'll prevent this sort of ill-feeling between people who believe they've been hard done by and will reduce 'vigilante' attacks and people being victimised because players believe only they will do anything about griefers, anyone remember Evil Lil Rose?

[magik33]

hey silent bob. who the hell are you to dictate what you did was right.

look . i dont know how many times i've said this but ill say it again
i have no problem with being pked. it's part of the game and i fully accept the hostilities that go with the okie name. the problem i have it the inability to respawn myself because you and your buddie felt the need to not let me . killing someone 10 times , most of which was done at my respawning temple, isnt what i would call fair being that your a much higher lvl than me.

i will suffer the concequence of being killed because of the okie name but ask yourself this, if i was part of another guild would i have gotten a different treatment?
most ppl that know me know what kind of player i am and know that although most of okie are ruthless beyotches that i , myself, am a nice beyotch. i have yet to pp anyone ( mostly because i dont know how:) and anyone i ever did pk i rezed ( that makes about 30 in ns3 and a big fat 0 in ns4) so even tho i am part of the best guild in ns i do not play the same way that some of them do.( at least not at my level).
so then you ask why am i even a part of the okie guild?

well thats eazy

they let me rubb the okie chicken.

im not here to stir up any shizz but lets play fair.


rubbs for president!!!!!

[TGPO]

Going off and hunting someone for whatever reason is fine and dandy. Lining up your friends and relatives to repeatedly take someone out in the fashion that was described here falls pretty clearly into harrasment. Camping someones spawn point with overwhelming force, how cheesy can you get?

Be glad that Okies as a rule dont file complaints.

[garrykasparov]

One plausible solution to implement is to give newly respawned characters temporary immunity to damage for a short period of time (2 min or so maybe) or until they perform some action other than opening doors, moving map to map, talking to someone, etc. This way, spawn camping cannot be done to great effect.

[Silent Bob]

hey silent bob. who the hell are you to dictate what you did was right.

Rubbs, you seemed to have forgotten that I didn't PK you once outside the temple. I got you twice inside the temple then agreed with you that anymore would amount to harassment and I said I'd let you leave and not touch you again.

I didn't get involved outside, I was just observing for a few minutes before logging, and I can remember saying several times to the group there that this was harassment. You didn't help matters by not leaving when given several opportunities to do so and standing there mouthing off.

Another possible solution would be to prevent enemy faction members from binding to hostile areas, or at least until a certain level is reached. I think one of the factors involved in the harassment was the fact he'd had the cheek to bind to NS temple.

[Brax]

G Camping someones spawn point with overwhelming force, how cheesy can you get?

Be glad that Okies as a rule dont file complaints.

Yeah.. Just aswell they don't, they wouldn't have a leg to stand on. The first time I logged in to NS4, I played for a bit, and then needed to buy some stuff, I was pk'd 3 times in a row by an okie, and all I was doing was trying to get to a shop. Okies should be pk'd every chance someone gets. over and over again.. That is what they do to newbs. If some group constanlty pk's newbs, then they need to be pk'd to the point of greifing, because they will not learn their lesson otherwise. The okies think they can get away with anything they want. And in a way, they are right.. Until someone shows them the penalty of their actions. Since then, I have been pk'd a number of times, but by a different factions, and everytime, it has been in the spirit of roleplaying. Either because we are of equal levels, or I have been silly enough to pick fight with a higher level. Never have I seen 15+ level kill newbs of opposing factions like I have seen okies killl newbs (that's all they seem to kill, from what I hear, because they tend to logout if anyone around their level attacks them).
It takes a lot to inspire such hatred as people have for okies. They are not characters that need pity. Everything that happens to them is stuff that they have done to others.

[Brennan068]

While I have seen Okies behave in the manner described above, I have also seen some of them be quite civil. I think each person in the game needs to be judged on their own merits (regardless of their name tag.) I don't know if the dm's really give preferential treatment to the Okies or not, they've said that they handle discipline behind the scenes on their own and I have to just believe that they do treat every case on its own merits.

If Rubb was feeling his chicken like he says and griefing newbies then he deserves to get a taste of it for himself... not because he is an Okie, but because he is a griefer (I'm not saying he is because I don't know him, just if he is.) If he was not griefing others then he did not deserve the harassment that he received.

ATI has a good philosophy on the PK. I don't know if I can live up to his standards, but I sure will try.

[Brax]

It is all very well fro someone to be judged on their own merits (as for opposing faction members, I do judge on individual merits) but when a certain group creates a reputation for griefing as the okies do, then to align yourself with them, is to take on their repuation, and the consequences of that reputation.

[Nemesis Revised]

okies are just like everyone in NS. They are just like everyone in a sense that they can kill and can be killed. Some okies are nice, some are neutral, and some are just bad. They probably have the best reputation out there, whenever you say okie, even the noobs know them. Anyhow, I think players shouldn't do the killing a person on respawn thing; it makes gameplay really screwed.

I suggest the devs however to create different faction impressions on every individual. Perhaps a noble paladin can be viewed by his faction as "honorable" while a drow who keeps invading another faction can be viewed as "tyrannical". Those who are hated by his own faction can be called "outcasts" and is sent on exile from his own land [a nice thing about this is the more sins the player has done on his own faction, the longer it takes before he can be un-exiled]. Just a suggestion so that people would know what a player's rating is in his own faction. Perhaps they could put it on a board in each faction's headquarters that can be viewed. The board would probably only list the faction players at his home server (if the player is present).

[X-I-L]

Some of us have better things to do than chase after attention seekers ie. Okies ;o It's fine to go after them and kill them if they've done somethin to annoy u, but there's no need to repeatedly kill them unless they continually ask for it ;o

Hi Bob btw (I Drizzt if u dont remember ) What lvl ur cleric now? I been at Uni last 2 months so I'm waaay behind be back in a week tho for summer hols

[ATI]

Thanks TGPO for unlocking this thread The point of this wasn't to get into a discussion about how we all hate okies or any crappy conversation like that.

I want to spur discussion regarding what are the rules of engagement against enemies? what do people do. Or use this post so that people can read what each others philosophies on fighting are, just as a heads up for PvP. This doesn't have to be a flame fest. Besides, killing anyone at a spawn point is lame, simple as that

Aight ya'll so please keep this forum to the discussion of engagement rules, after that pu tyour comments on PM's or on a different topic.

[Qui]

I think the problem ATI, is people see the hostile (red) name and say, out its a PC.. dont have to worry.. The solution is for people to treat all Hostie PCs the way they would treat a hostile mob, attack if u could take it, run if you cant. If you wanna chat and become friends with a hostie PC thats your call, but people seem to be suprised when they say hello and get death fingered. As far as more formal rules go, the only rule so far from the devs is no harasment.. which is so nebulous it almost has no value except in very serious situations such as the one you mentioned which is clearly harasment, so, two thigns ahve to happen, 1) players need to treat hostile PCs like they are just anotherhostile, and 2) the DMs/Devs need to write formally the rules they want followed in regards to pvp combat or its never going to settle down.

[AndrewCarr]

I generally leave hostiles alone if they're near giants(high traffic) or the woods around avendell, that are full of ppl b/c there's good xp ogres, it leads to avendell from melencia, and it leads to giants and good xp there.

But, say, if a hostile were heading from Avendell to Melencia thru the dark forest and then the old trade route, i'd probably kill them no matter the lvl(if possible...) Just like I killed two random hostiles that zoned out of Melencia in front of me. I really could care less if they were just "exploring" or are "mapping" the terrain for beta testing, because that's my city, there are usually newbies in there, and I'm there in part to help and protect my fellow faction members. So yeah, if someone is near my town, then i'll do my best to kill them, unless it will waste an inordinate amount of disjunt scrolls/mantle scrolls/mantle pots, b/c to me, those are rare, and i'd rather save them for times when I really need to kill someone, or multiple ppl, like if a bunch of high lvl mages were rampaging thru town, whereas i usually don't go into fights "armed to the teeth" if I'll generally win.


[Edit:] Addendum: I generally won't bother hostiles if they're invading a town with me. Sometimes I even group with dwarves when invading SL. But Neversummer is usually a different case, as the guards are easier, so I usually don't need any cleric or whatever buffs or help, and also because there's more fighting in neversummer as well, so it makes things interesting if I can kill off ppl who are hogging the xp spot.


So here's my pvp setup in brief:

near melencia - kill
near daeron - kill

near avendell/giants - say hello, keep going. Possibly buff if they need bull's str. Or kill if they're annoying.

invading enemy cities- neutral, or semi-friendly if I know the ppl, or pvp for fun.

invading neversumer - neutral or kill. Depends on mood and situation.