Physical resistances..too much of it?

Hieroneus Maxim · Post by **Hieroneus Maxim** » Fri May 28, 2004 10:21 pm

This thread will be about physical resistances and their effects on the game. I would like to see what other players think about this.

Physical resistances/reduction on armors - I personally think that this is a good thing. However, I think that the bonuses should be based on both level of equipment and category of armor. Light armors shouldn't give as good of resistances as heavy armors do. At lower levels, they should maybe be the same, so that heavy armor isn't overpowering, but at higher levels leather armor should not give the same amount as full plate.

Shields - this is a no no. Shields become too powerful, thus overshadowing 2-handed weapons and dual-wielding to a lesser extent. I like defense, but this seems a bit much. Maybe small amounts of resistance on dropped items, but you shouldn't be able to just buy shields with 20%. Maybe armor could have physical resistance and shields could have elemental.

Weapons - because of the proliferation of DR and immunity based on type, weapons should be able to do different types of damage:
-elemental damage for the extra 1D4, 1D6, 1D8...
-extra damage types (ie axe that does slashing and bludg) for loot items
or maybe crafted items

Casters - if lots of things have physical resistances, then elemental (and magic damage) resistance should be thrown into the mix both on monsters and on equipment

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Fri May 28, 2004 10:31 pm

I don't think the %'s or resists are off, i'd just like resists to all types of dmg added into the game, with sorta equal %'s of course. Having a max of 5% neg energy wouldn't do much good after all.

Alexiagold · Post by **Alexiagold** » Sat May 29, 2004 1:04 am

Casters - if lots of things have physical resistances, then elemental (and magic damage) resistance should be thrown into the mix both on monsters and on equipment

Again, there is on almost every single non-store bought piece of gear, elemental immunities.

Additionally almost every mob has elemental immunities and resistances, you likely don't notice, since you don't play casters.

I do however agree that shields are a tad overpowered epecially since they can be switched much more easily than armor.

IcemanXV · Post by **IcemanXV** » Sat May 29, 2004 1:29 am

I can see shields being a bit more viable if they gave half or 1/3 (whatever is larger due to immunity increments) whatever armor would give for that level of item. Level 13 armor that gives 20% immunity would have a 10% shield.

OR

See if you can script 2 handed weapons to doing STRx2 damage instead of STRx1.5. That, and making an offhand weapon in dual weild do STRx1 dmg instead of STRx0.5.

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Sat May 29, 2004 2:02 am

Hmm.. that would be nice, but i dual wield and use shields, so it wouldn't really affect me overall. Would lose a little bit of resists for some nice killing power. What about keeping shield %'s the same, and adding a % to two handed weapons and a resist to one handed weapons(since %'s would stack, and make it more powerful)

garrykasparov · Post by **garrykasparov** » Sat May 29, 2004 4:55 am

You may find that shields simply are superior when it comes to HtH combat between two fighters. OTOH, dual wielding and two-handed weapons are superior when it comes to killing mages or things for which AC and physical immunitry are useless; such weapons would also be preferable when speed in killing is preferred over protection.

OTOH, I still contend that placing both physical DI and DR on items is a bit unbalancing, as you can essentially negate 20 points of damage against a particular weapon type. I think the biggest imbalance is between finesse fighters or archers and other fighter types. Also, at some point a PM build with 3 epic DR feats is going to make life hellish for finesse fighters without sneak or archers, as being immune to crit and absorbing 29 points of damage puts quite a damper on their ability to inflict pain.

Hieroneus Maxim · Post by **Hieroneus Maxim** » Sat May 29, 2004 12:56 pm

I guess it really comes down to the high availability of phys immune shield, and the ability to switch them during combat. At least armor can't be switched (unless you run away I guess).

True, some of the dropped shields have elemental resistance, but they are much less common than phys immune. I certainly wouldn't say "almost evey non-store bought," but they are out there. Also, are all of the elemental types represented? The elemental shields that I've found also have phys immune on them.

I spoke prematurely about monsters not having elemental resistances. My rogue has used traps and dealt very little damage before, even on failed saves.

As I said before, I would really like to see loot items (and possibly craftable items) that have extra physical damage types placed on them. "Defense" weapons might be good for dual-wielders too. Maybe a weapon that grants a +AC bonus, but loses the extra damage die. I agree that finesse fighters/archers are the ones that really get hurt by this.

Hjast · Post by **Hjast** » Sat May 29, 2004 1:37 pm

For us two hander weapons, ( I use greataxe), it is stupid that there is resist on shields. We already have to live with not having like 6 ac, but on top of that being able to switch to absorb 20 of any damage type with the corrseping shield. Twon handers don't even do to much more damage than other weapons because the only thing they have is the added str bonus and the like d2 (from [censored], katana) or d4 from the longsword. My solution-
either add no physical resist to the shield or cut down a lot or
make greataxes do a lot mroe damage then other weapons.

Brennan068 · Post by **Brennan068** » Sat May 29, 2004 1:52 pm

Unless you are a halfling, [censored] sword, katana & longsword are all one handed weapons. Put a shield in the other hand.

For greataxe users, live with it. You have the advantage of the 1.5x on the str modifier to blast through the shield. Adjust stats to take advantage of this if that is your playing style.

I do agree that the resitance/reduction is too high for the level requirements as they are (and I am a sword and board user), but to whine that I wanna use a greataxe and can't because someone else might have a shield ... well I find that a little silly.

IcemanXV · Post by **IcemanXV** » Sat May 29, 2004 3:17 pm

Brennan068 wrote:Unless you are a halfling, [censored] sword, katana & longsword are all one handed weapons. Put a shield in the other hand.

For greataxe users, live with it. You have the advantage of the 1.5x on the str modifier to blast through the shield. Adjust stats to take advantage of this if that is your playing style.

I do agree that the resitance/reduction is too high for the level requirements as they are (and I am a sword and board user), but to whine that I wanna use a greataxe and can't because someone else might have a shield ... well I find that a little silly.

The point is, 2 hand users should DO more damage, as well as TAKE more damage. As it stands now with DI and DR, 2 hand users only get hurt more. The extra damage doesn't equate. We are suggesting offensive bonuses to those who choose to go that route, because that's the whole point of not using a shield....more damage.

Brennan068 · Post by **Brennan068** » Sat May 29, 2004 3:30 pm

Oh I understand the point. What I'm saying is that the point is not being conveyed in the appropriate manner. I think that although balance should be the goal; you cannot balance all play styles completely.

I agree that 2 handers should do more damage as well as take more damage and I also agree that the resistance/reduction is too high for the level of the shields. I don't think removing reduction/resistance completely from shields is appropriate but I do think that the level restriction rules for shields is currently out of balance. I understand that it adds significant work to the dev team, but I think that the real problem is in holding firm to the every 4 levels step up.

BTW, I suspect (based on the comments that I've read in these forums) that as soon as the 2-hander crowd manage to convince the devs to make them do more damage their next crusade will be to find a way so that they don't take so much.

IcemanXV · Post by **IcemanXV** » Sat May 29, 2004 4:03 pm

Brennan068 wrote:BTW, I suspect (based on the comments that I've read in these forums) that as soon as the 2-hander crowd manage to convince the devs to make them do more damage their next crusade will be to find a way so that they don't take so much.

No i just think you have a problem with people voicing their opinions on balance issues.

No one ever said that 2 handers should take less damage. One well knows what they trade in damage. Just at the moment, 2 handers aren't really as effective as they should be. They get all of the penalties and none of the benefits.

I think you take everything as whining. It's not, not by far. These are the things we notice while beta testing. Devs encourage us to do this, regardless of what they do and do not implement. Not every comment on balancing issues is people whining to get something un-nerfed so they can be the überest character ever. Most people generally do not care as much as you think.

In fact, I'm looking for this balance as well and I use a paladin with warhammer/shield.

So...yeah.

Brennan068 · Post by **Brennan068** » Sat May 29, 2004 4:46 pm

First:

No i just think you have a problem with people voicing their opinions on balance issues.

Second:

No one ever said that 2 handers should take less damage. One well knows what they trade in damage. Just at the moment, 2 handers aren't really as effective as they should be.

First ummm. no. I have no problem with people voicing their opinion on balance issues. I just insist that I have the same right, and through that, the right to voice the counter argument if I feel it is appropriate.

Second I didn't say that anybody did... yet. It was a prediction and time will tell if I am right or not.

I've been agreeing with you that the resistance/reduction is too high which is the core problem making 2-handers less effective than they should be for what they are giving up.

If my tone offended you in my first post in this discussion, then I appologize. I still think the post I replied to was whiny... but whatever.

So.... yeah.

Sagil · Post by **Sagil** » Sat May 29, 2004 7:50 pm

Cutting the damage immunities and resistances from shields down significantly (by half?) seems a good idea to me. The whole two-handed weapons, dual wield and shield issue seems rather well balanced when shields aren't that powerful.

EvilIguana966 · Post by **EvilIguana966** » Sun May 30, 2004 10:28 pm

% resistances should not exist on items worn by casters. Clerics shouldnt be better fighters than fighters.