Keen Bow Question

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Sat May 22, 2004 4:55 pm

Afaik no keen bows exist, and it makes no sense that a bow could be "keen"(although i'm fairly certain the toolset lets them be), but in practice, does anyone think keen longbows/shortbows and, likewise, crossbows, would be overpowered? I think this would balance them out well with other weapons, but not make them too powerful. That or maybe remove the massive crit dmg from bows and add a little more dmg. As it is, i hit for between 15-30 on mobs on normal hits(depends on if they're favored enemy) and can crit for 111 max. Usually crits range from high 60's to mid-high 80's. This differs from my rapiers which hit for about 20-25 a hit, and do from 4-70 a crit, which is a big difference since their crit range is 12-20 vs 19-20 on improved crit longbow.
For longswords and [censored] swords i'd imagine it's similar, with more base dmg, higher crits, but less of them.
So i'd like changes to be make to longbows so they'll do relatively comparable dmg, taking into account the whole range issue.

This is comparing an ebony longbow to imbued mith rapiers:

+3 atk, +3 mighty, +2d6 massive crits, 1d8 base dmg, +1d0 arrows, +3 dmg from str(mighty), +2d6 +5 on favored enemies.

vs

+2d6 pierce, +3 enhancement, +2d6 crits, keen, 12-20 crit range rapier with +3 dmg from str.

garrykasparov · Post by **garrykasparov** » Sat May 22, 2004 5:24 pm

I agree that archers are a bit underpowered at the moment. While it is easy to say "you pay a price for striking from a distance," DR and Damage Immunity really puts a hamper on all but sneaking ranged attackers.

Your suggestion is a reasonable one. Bardish archers can already make keen bows them I believe, but perhaps giving the ability to another class (maybe making all bows keen for AA perhaps) would be reasonable. I suppose you could also add half of the character's dex rating to damage (overlaps, would not stack with mighty), which might not be too unreasonable.

TTG · Post by **TTG** » Sat May 22, 2004 5:29 pm

Ranged weapons cannot ever be keen. It's an engine limitation. Furthermore the Bard spell only makes slashing weapons keen.

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Sat May 22, 2004 5:32 pm

Ah, damn. Hadn't opened toolset to check. That's a bugger then.

garrykasparov · Post by **garrykasparov** » Sat May 22, 2004 5:35 pm

Well, that deep sixes those ideas. What about adding half the player's dex bonus to damage in lieu of the mighty bonus?

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Sat May 22, 2004 5:37 pm

Well, i think the problem with that is you'll get the normal dmg you want, but crits will be scary

The Hasselhoff · Post by **The Hasselhoff** » Sat May 22, 2004 6:19 pm

11 Bard / 25 Arcane Archer / 4 Fighter

1-8 + 21 damage. (While naked with no buffs but Bard Song.)

Dyson · Post by **Dyson** » Sat May 22, 2004 8:07 pm

TTG wrote:Ranged weapons cannot ever be keen. It's an engine limitation. Furthermore the Bard spell only makes slashing weapons keen.

Keen can be put on bows. I don't know how since I'm not a dev, but Trinity managed to put keen, an enhancement bonus and elemental mods on an actual bow.

Always bugged me that Bio nerfed bows so much compared to pvp...making mighty an ILR function, no enhancement, no elemental mods at all...it's forced mod after mod to focus all of the power on the arrows instead which frankly is just a big PITA for players.

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Sat May 22, 2004 9:00 pm

arrows wouldn't be a huge problem, but afaik you can only put max of +5 arrows unlimited on bows, not custom ones. Which really bites.

Post by **DeputyDog** » Sat May 22, 2004 10:50 pm

An arcane archer with 5 levels of rogue is insane. And you cant hit him back.

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Sat May 22, 2004 10:57 pm

Yeah, was trying to make a decent archer without going AA. Wanted to just be a ranger/bard/pm. May just do ranger/bard/aa if i can't get a faction change ever.

Acara · Post by **Acara** » Sun May 23, 2004 4:05 am

TTG wrote:Ranged weapons cannot ever be keen. It's an engine limitation. Furthermore the Bard spell only makes slashing weapons keen.

Use Leto

Joran · Post by **Joran** » Sun May 23, 2004 5:29 pm

Acara wrote:
TTG wrote:Ranged weapons cannot ever be keen. It's an engine limitation. Furthermore the Bard spell only makes slashing weapons keen.

Use Leto :roll:

That won't add it to the module pallette. And anyway, we don't use the toolset for item modifications anymore. With XML, we can put any property on any item, regardless of what the toolset lets you do.

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Sun May 23, 2004 9:05 pm

Does that mean ebonwood bows will be keen now?

Joran · Post by **Joran** » Mon May 24, 2004 9:27 pm

AndrewCarr wrote:Does that mean ebonwood bows will be keen now? :D

Sure, which edge of the bow would you like to be extra sharp?