RFC: Proposed Class Changes

[Joran]

I wanted to run a change by everyone, this time BEFORE implementation (gasp!), so everyone would have a chance to comment and perhaps improve upon the idea, if possible. But, before we begin, a small disclaimer:

PLEASE LIMIT YOUR REPLIES TO ONLY ADDRESS THE ISSUES PRESENTED IN THIS POST. POSTS WITH ANY AMOUNT OF OFF-TOPIC CONTENT WILL BE DELETED. REFERENCES TO OTHER OFF-TOPIC POSTS WILL BE DELETED.

Oh, c'mon. You know it was necessary.

Proposed Class Changes

In an effort to combat the "twink" builds that became even more popular and easier to achieve with HoU (how necessary IS that 40th level of sorc when you compare it to a nice level of paladin, after all), we are proposing a few changes to class selections on level-up.

Classes which require significant amounts of devotion or dedication to follow will now reflect that by requiring characters to pursue that path more fully before being allowed to divert. For now, this will be limited to Paladins and Monks, and will be implemented in the same way that faction classes are enforced.

Once a character has chosen to pursue the path of a Monk or a Paladin, they will be strictly forbidden from leaving that path until they have achieved at least level 5. If at any time before level 5 is reached, the character chooses a different class at level-up, that level will be removed and the player will have to choose again.

In simple terms: once you take a level of monk or paladin, you must take that same class for your next 4 levels, or you will be unable to progress at all.

This will most likely be of little consequence to those pursuing non-munchin character builds, however it will have the side effect of preventing a completely unrelated class from taking a level of monk or paladin in order to gain their level 1 bonuses. This is necessary because Bioware has made it virtually impossible to "strip" the bonuses in these types of builds.

This will not prevent someone from taking 19 levels of sorcerer and then 1 level of paladin and stopping there, but the catch is - they have to go through 19 levels of pure sorcerer WITHOUT those cheeky bonuses that they'd otherwise get as their first or second level.

Let the flaming begin.

[Gil-Este]

i like it great solution

[DeputyDog]

Why not make it 10 levels?

its only pally and monk, and those two classes if serious would be pure anyway.

[Alexiagold]

Why is it only those classes? Why not all/any class. It seems like Shadow Dancer at only one level is a much more valuable abusive prc to take. One level of rogue/bard simply to stack into it your saved skill points/gain the AB boost for sneak. Anyway in my opinion every class should follow these same restrictions.

Shadow Dancers
Or Cleric for one level to get animal domain.
Or Sorc/wiz/bard for one level to permit a fighter to become an AA, PM or RDD.


I'll edit in more as I think of them.

[Ace Dragonfury]

So this is designed to stop the 1 lvl cheese effects??
chars get huge bonuses just for 1 lvl of another class.. makes sense


All I can ask for is don't do that with prestige classes please. Theres always going to be that 1 or 5 lvls of shadowdancer or dont want to go all the way with weapon master or RDD. They're different because you have to spend points, feats, meet the requirements, etc.

That and you shouldn't penalize CoT ( Chumps of Torm ) either if they wanna go 1 CoT then next Pally then back to CoT or whatever.

Ok theres my 2 bronze pieces.

[junksta]

aye its an idea worth lookin into

[Elora Dannan]

Why not make it 10 levels?

I agree with DeputyDog. Ten lvls of the first class would really get you established, and with only being able to have one Prestige class, it would make sense.

And as for just using the Paladin and Monk, that makes sense as well. You have to start somewhere. Those are just as good as any. I am a fighter myself, and am going towards my Weapons Master, but I decided when I first started my character that I would have at least 10 lvls before choosing anything else.

So, I do hope it is implemented. Good Luck with the testing, Joran!!

[Gil-Este]

it does not make sense to do with the more generic classes like fighter, rougue, etc. the purely purely physical classes without unique skills or abilities don't really jive with the idea of forcing a character to dedicate a whole chunk of their leveling, etc because those are the kind of things that can be intermingled. wiz/sorc/bard should have this added. prestige classes...not indiscriminately but maybe SD...

[djshale]

but what if someone wants to alternate levels. for example take paladin, then monk, then paladin again, so on and so forth... not that a paladin/monk makes much sense, but you get the idea

[Lework]

I like this idea, but I would like to see it set to 10 lvls instead of 5.

[Gil-Este]

but what if someone wants to alternate levels. for example take paladin, then monk, then paladin again, so on and so forth... not that a paladin/monk makes much sense, but you get the idea

5 pally/5 monk/1 pally/1 monk/1 pally/1 monk/1 pally/1 monk.......

[DM Clang]

You need to add in that if you do not have 5 levels left to "level up" . . .

i.e. above 34th

You cant take em because you wouldnt be able to get to 5 levels.


i.e. a 39th level sorc wouldn't worry about having to level up as paladin 5 times, hes only got one level left.

[AuTEC]

I think the idea is a good one (I am commonly referred to as the inventor of the sorc/paladin/monk build after all lol )

5 levels is good, and is a compromise. 10 levels is pushing it a little too far I think.

And in all fairness, if this were to be implemented other tweak classes should be included

rogue (a must)
bard (a must)
shadowdancer (a must, you don't want to see my HIPS Wizard)
cleric (a must to prevent animal domain from carrying over to arcane summons)
sorcerer (to prevent one level of bard/sorc and then RDD)
wizard (to prevent 1 level of wizard and then arcane archer)

Contrary to popular belief the sorc/paladin/monk isn't that great in the big scheme of things, it just has the most attention. Other tweak builds are as powerful in their own ways.

-AuTEC

[djshale]

but what if someone wants to alternate levels. for example take paladin, then monk, then paladin again, so on and so forth... not that a paladin/monk makes much sense, but you get the idea

5 pally/5 monk/1 pally/1 monk/1 pally/1 monk/1 pally/1 monk.......

offcouse, the best answers are usually the simplest ones... I wonder how I missed this... and besides I suppose lvl 10 isnt that hard to hit

i guess no more taking classes at specific levels just to max out skills... dont get me wrong I think this is a good thing, the proposal is definitely a step in the right direction

I also think this should be implemented for all class not just the two mentioned

and one more thing, i dont know much about NWN scripting but Im guessing if you can script checking for 5 levels in a class then you can check if there is still enough lvls left to hit the 5 lvl limit... this will prevent going 39 sorc then 1 paladin...

[Sagil]

Sounds good to me, wether it be 5 levels or 10. Considering that there will be 40 levels total for only 3 classes max, 10 levels seems still reasonable.
Also should put in the check Clang suggested.
Making it a requirement for all classes seems unreasonable to me, most classes don't get huge boni on first level. My suggestion would be to require it for monk, paladin and all prestige classes.