PKing

[Heeza]

Question, How is killing someone 10-15 levels lower than you numerous times "not" griefing? I thought PKing was supposed to be fun, AND challenging. What skill is involved by constantly killing someone over and over who has no chance at all of defending themselves, or even getting a hit in on someone. I've played other games that had penalties for farming lowbies, to include banning. I'm not the only one who has these thoughts, others have voiced concerns to me too. I just want the server to stay fun and full...and challenging.

Theres my 2 cents. Have a swell day

[MLoki]

Player Harassment

Before one can do anything about harassment, one needs to understand exactly what harassment is:

Webster's: These verbs mean to trouble persistently or incessantly. Harass and harry imply systematic persecution by besieging with repeated annoyances, threats, or demands: The landlord harassed tenants who were behind in their rent. A rude customer had harried the storekeeper. Hound suggests unrelenting pursuit to gain a desired end: Reporters hounded the celebrity for an interview. To badger is to nag or tease persistently: The child badgered his parents for a new bicycle. To pester is to inflict a succession of petty annoyances: “How she would have pursued and pestered me with questions and surmises” (Charlotte Brontë). Plague refers to a problem likened to an epidemic disease: “As I have no estate, I am plagued with no tenants or stewards” (Henry Fielding).

While the Webster’s definition of harassment is in some fashion comical, it brings up a number of issues. Rudeness, badgering, nagging, pestering, annoying, plaguing, troubling, persecuting, threatening, demanding. You name it. Harassment in NS is intentionally and continually upsetting another player – simple as that.

This can include using foul language directed in a personally attacking fashion, initiating PvP against another player for malicious reasons – the works.

A DM will use their best judgment in dealing with cases of harassment and PvP, but a DMs decision is always final.

This excerpt is from http://www.nsrealm.com/public/ns/viewto ... =23&t=1243.

If someone is harrasing you then SS the incident as much as possible and send it to the DM team. Personally, I thought there was a rule against "Farming Lowbies" (See Below) but after bringing it up to the DM team I was told that as long as the PK rules weren't broken then it was ok.

Player Killing

This is probably one of the toughest subjects in online PWs – sometime players deserve it, sometimes they don’t. Sometimes it’s accidental, sometimes it’s purposeful and malicious, or simply without reason. The servers will be Player vs Player and faction battle will happen, however general common sense should tell you if you are going to far.

Excessive killing or the hunting down of low level characters for sport are unacceptable. PKing to the point of harassment, to where it affects another player's enjoyment severely, will also not be tolerated. As with Pick Pocket, resolution of PKing situations that come to a DM will depend largely on the reputation of the players involved and their histories.

[Heeza]

I guess mine, and others with this situation, would fall under this rule:

Excessive killing or the hunting down of low level characters for sport are unacceptable. PKing to the point of harassment, to where it affects another player's enjoyment severely, will also not be tolerated. As with Pick Pocket, resolution of PKing situations that come to a DM will depend largely on the reputation of the players involved and their histories.

Quick question though. What is considered, "Low Level Characters?" My best judgement would say that if you're too low to group, then you're a low level character. So, maybe 5 levels or more?

and thank you for the info MLoki

[LinuxPup]

What level the player your killing makes no difference... its perfectly okay for a level 40 to PK a level 1. What's considered too much is when a player kills another player more than 3 times in 6 hours. It's generally a good idea to take your lumps and move on if you're a low level characater. If the player has declared a takeover and ownership of that area then its ok for them to kill as much as they want... but they can't kill you elsewhere then past the 3 kills or they're breaking the rules.

Sounds complicated but it seems to work for the most part. The worst thing you can do is whine on shout (not sure if you did this or not)... that's what most players like to see when they kill another player... it only encourages them. Just be silent and avoid them. There's many places to go and even if a player takes an area over you generally aren't stuck.

[Rainswept]

Quick question though. What is considered, "Low Level Characters?" My best judgement would say that if you're too low to group, then you're a low level character. So, maybe 5 levels or more?

Eeek. I would hesitate strongly to start putting stats on what's low and what isn't, especially in a server ranging from 1 to 40.

Take HiPS for instance. I'm fairly sure a well built level 25 hipster could take apart say a 30 melee who has no spot skills. I'm also confident that if a level 1 fighter happens past a level 5 mage who's out of spells, it'll be an uncomfortable meeting for the mage.

Toss in the fact that we have players with such a very wide range of skills and experience. I partied recently with an 11 year old boy, so I'm sure we have players who've been playing NWN since he was like 6.

I'd say leave this stuff up to a DM's on the spot perceptions. DM's aren't stupid, but oftimes set rules can be. IMO anyway.

[Heeza]

I'm kind of confused now. In the guidlines that MLoki quoted it says,

"Excessive killing or the hunting down of low level characters for sport are unacceptable. PKing to the point of harassment, to where it affects another player's enjoyment severely, will also not be tolerated."

Yet LinuxPup is saying,

"What level the player your killing makes no difference... its perfectly okay for a level 40 to PK a level 1."

Also, what constitutes a "Low level" character

Also, (for example) When you're a level 14 in Ave, and a group invites you to Giant Mountain, but there's a level 30 camping Ogre Pass, well, its rather annoying not being able to join up. I suppose you could ask everyone in the group to go someplace else, but now 1 persons actions are disrupting many peoples enjoyment of the game. Not to mention the PKer could just move to the new spot and start killing a different lowbie in the group over, and over again. From what I've seen there are other bottle-necks like this that can prevent friends from grouping up and having an enjoyable time.

Also, I've heard people say, "Ask on the Shout channel (in an RP voice)for someone to come kill the person." But to me when there's only 14-15 people on, well those people are trying to play and level too. "I" don't want to take away from their enjoyment to come bail me out. Not to mention, after the 3rd or 4th time I'll probably get hit with the "spam" stick for abusing the shout channel.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy PvP as much as anyone, but farming lowbies and preventing people from grouping up and having fun just seems wrong to me. Maybe I'm the only one with that opinion /shrug

[Korr]

I would second the notion of bringing it public, or to a buddy to come and kill those griefing you. Like you said you like PvP so if somone is just out farming xp alot of times theyll be glad to take a break and throw down against someone camping on the ogre pass. In fact it might get the real PvP action that the person was looking for, and they will leave other alone.

I in the past have even managed to lure away the camper while in a party with the lowbie so they know when its safe to pass by. Then let the PKer kill me and wait for . . . noone (bwahahah)

[Celorn]

Normally shouting would have people flooding the area to kill the pkers... but that was before the last wipe, since then at least 3 of the most active guilds/factions with players that are on a lot more than most, all bandwagoned into one faction .. everyone else have lives and are slowly building up their set of 40's, things will start to shift as the 'good' and 'neutral' factions have their toons and the gear to top them up for PvP/'endgame'.

For now, you just have to learn the server better -- there are TONS of places to level, I for one NEVER level on the mountain as every time I have attempted it, it's crawling with people, plus it's a pain to rescue a dead party from 8 or 9 screens from Avendel, I prefer the areas that are more of a circuit (tho some of my old faves are not available now since RK is friendly to the npcs/mobs).

Really you just need to figure out how it all works here and then you'll be fine, it can take many months to learn all the ins and outs from building to factor in books and gear, to friendly/foe interaction. I'd like to see something like what WoW has with enemy factions -> you can't understand a word they say, it scrambles their talking (because you don't know their language) which helps better define RED=DEAD. This server is a mixed bag, sometimes reds will leave you alone or run away if you attack, other times a green will kill you for no reason, no RP reasons, probably just someone bored or testing out their build on the first available target, or they suck so bad they have to kill people lower than them to win.

But yes, shout it out and see if anyone comes to help, or send tells to friendly guild-tagged toons, or even try praying to your god to give you strength, perhaps the hand of your god will assist you in some way...

[Heeza]

I think perhaps I've put my finger on part of the issue. It stems from, Play-Time. Myself and others who have limited play-time, like an hour a day, or perhaps a couple hours on a weekend, don't like to spend the entire hour licking dirt and waiting for a rez. If we had 6-10 hours to play each day, then being killed 3 times within 45 minutes wouldn't seem like such a big deal. But when you only have an hour, then it feels like 100% of your play-time has been lost. So, I/We either need to quit our jobs, OR.... we need to try and avoid PKers until we get a few more levels under our belts. I prefer the former, my wife will probably make me choose the later.

Now I'm going to go log in.

[Shhhhhhh]

I think perhaps I've put my finger on part of the issue. It stems from, Play-Time. Myself and others who have limited play-time, like an hour a day, or perhaps a couple hours on a weekend, don't like to spend the entire hour licking dirt and waiting for a rez. If we had 6-10 hours to play each day, then being killed 3 times within 45 minutes wouldn't seem like such a big deal. But when you only have an hour, then it feels like 100% of your play-time has been lost. So, I/We either need to quit our jobs, OR.... we need to try and avoid PKers until we get a few more levels under our belts. I prefer the former, my wife will probably make me choose the later.

Now I'm going to go log in.

exactly right, if your play time is limited, you want to actually level up so you can have fun, explore the world and take part in the relic wars.
If you're playing many hours a day and already have a ton of high lvl chars and have seen everything of the server its very different. I guess anyway

[frogofpeace]

There have been a couple threads for other areas to level - anybody have them handy, perchance?

Some alternatives to giant mountain - Haddon Mirk ogre area, mezzolith areas, minotoaur caves, vampire area outside windale, Gnoll Pits.

Also - explore! If your level 10ish, you're big enough that most areas accessible to you won't kill you immediately. It's a big server, lots of stuff to see.

[Gornickthy]

I remember a time when PKing was so bad on the mountain that no one leveled there for a while. It was a ghost trail. Just as Frog said, people went to different areas and leveled there. It is a great escape from the PKing, and now that there is a rift portal in the mountain you will see a lot more high level toons running up an down the mountain. Some will PK regularly, some will do drive by PKing, and other will not bother to kill lowbies... it just depends on who you run into and their mood. So I agree with Frog... explore explore explore.

[Korr]

Another area to give a shot at is the underdark. Wont be the fastest exp, but its rarely travelled. Since the revamp is has 4 (i think) screens to it, and a few other areas surrounding it that are good for that level. Just dont take any stairs down, it gets hard quick ';)

[MLoki]

I'm kind of confused now. In the guidlines that MLoki quoted it says,

Perhaps you missread what I was saying but I had the same confusion before talking to the DMs as well.

Personally, I thought there was a rule against "Farming Lowbies" (See Below) but after bringing it up to the DM team I was told that as long as the PK rules weren't broken then it was ok.

So the PK rules are all that really apply. If you are getting PKed by a higher level toon more then a couple of times than your best option is to just respawn and find somewhere else to get xp.

[Heeza]

This is what I was referring to. I believe you quoted this directly from the rules?

Player Harassment


Excessive killing or the hunting down of low level characters for sport are unacceptable. PKing to the point of harassment, to where it affects another player's enjoyment severely, will also not be tolerated. As with Pick Pocket, resolution of PKing situations that come to a DM will depend largely on the reputation of the players involved and their histories.

But I think it was decided that everyone would have a different idea of what constitutes, "Harassment". Therefore, it was determined that 3 times would be the limit. And other such rules about taking over specific zones and such. Which then leads back to my comments about trying to join up with friends but getting killed a gajillion times and blah, blah, blah Because you're level 7 and they're level 38 and its ok because he/she owns the zone and, ...ramble on and ramble on... and, ....border-line whining... and etc,etc.