With all that needs to be done...

[Lorkar]

Why change the map in the orc caves? Seems like a superfluous change to me. The location of the door was changed, yet the DC of the lock stayed the same. And the hidden door on the other side can be seen by a non-elf with a search of 10.
So what was the point? To stop the 3rd and 4th level toons from power leveling to 5 and 6?

[Bargeld]

Actually the DC was lowered

and now it has a time delay lock

[Lokey]

Thought it was the same dc? That it didn't relock was a bad idea.

Didn't touch the other side.

[Korr]

Kinda sucks that we lost a jump spot there in the hallway... stopped many a raids in that hallway. I guess were just gonna have to hire the orcs now.

[Nyeleni]

Yeah, I feel your pain. Your cradle room is full of priests and warriors, and don't lets forget the assassin or sometimes more of them. And Im not even talking about the epic defenders. Just the common one. Crippling really blows for an attacker.
Then you have the temple access across two bridges. Must be a pain to defend. Oh, and if you take the shortest way in or out, the hidden legion tunnel, or just sewers, that one must be really tough to defend too. With hidden doors and all...

If I compare that to, let's say TC, who is really easy to defend, who wouldn't agree with you? It was a blow that you lost that hallway.

[Korr]

I havent seen the new Daeron cradle room or anything, but SL now has the easiest run to on the relic cradle. RKs is in a corner, TC in a corner, NC was behind doors, AO is in a corner, SL is 10 steps inside the door. Only defenders spawn between you and that cradle (much like TC). Crippling is still easy enough to get rid of. The only faction to raid TC that wouldnt run by Ave is NC. So you have a pretty easy time to defend too.

[Nyeleni]

True, to run to, NC is harder.
But SL has the toughest defense even without all DD and IO always lurking around. Because you can access easily the cradle in the temple doesnt make it simple to get to. Menzoduran outside is full of spawns. The tunnels are with all the vermin and other stuff a nightmare to run away from you guys. SL and NC are the toughest places, by far. AO and RK may come after that, but TC is certainly the easiest...
It's even contraproductive: As TC has to defend in a cave where one of the job items doesnt work, even better, SL works there and RK even gets a boost on the slammer. Try cruising around with a dragon in there. All the rocks and fires do help the attacker not the defender... But anyway, I didn't see a TC (which at the moment Im not as Im focusing on NC right now) complain about that...

And you loose a hallway, gimme a break.


PS: and AO if they come from Sleeth and MA and SL if they choose to take Dragon Air from and to Angmar or Western Slope... And even others might come from Sleeth if they are bound in FD ie. There are three ways in and out of Melencia, it's not easy to know where the attacker is coming from. Even though Wild Wood is the most used. Too many options, beside being in the middle of all the factions it isnt easy to know where the attacker might run through next. At least the diviners are easy to get to...

[Tsavong]

oh dont forget MAs cradle its just a big room so i wouldent say SL is hard done by any way if someone is gunna get away with a relic doors wont stop them only players can do that.

[Nyeleni]

Ah yes forgot about MA, maybe because they are a no-show lately... That town is twisted too for an attacker, although when the cradle was in the Tower, it was even worse.
It's the obstacle race which makes Menzoduran more difficult and dangerous than ie. Sleeth or Melencia. And the fact that there are more bottlenecks, altho on second thought, Sleeth is full of that too, but its easier to get out. Of course in the end it's the players, mostly if you dont die to the epcis, who stop the perpetrator, but the riff raff can give the defenders that extra second needed to kill.

[Lorkar]

The hallway loss is in the orc caves. Not in the relic room. and my point was, why bother doing something as meaningless as to remove the hallway when there are so many other things to do or finish. Like...I don't know, AO jobs.
Some of the changes have been nice but in my opinion the broken stuff should be fixed or finished before other changes are looked at.

[priestofbast]

throw money, these guys put in hundreds of hours for free. . . no wait, I already tried that.

Good luck with fixes, while were still adjusting the patch...

not to be snarky, but i really did offer a hundred bucks to get a job finished and the reply was, we're very busy, we will try. In other words, soon.

B**tchin at the team won't make em like us anymore than they already don't ...
\
catty

[Nyeleni]

Heh, I hope they dont see it as *bitchin* at the devs. We all know they do it for free and they are doing a great job. Else we wouldn't be discussing it as heatedly. We all just care about NS4 and sometimes are passionate about it. See Ranger and BG/CoT discussion.

[Tru3Fals3]

in my humble opinion i would say MA is most certainly the easiest faction to raid, their defenders are mostly just wipe aways, even their epics arent that tough, when they run dry on spells they cant really do anything, its also very easy to get in and out of ma, its a straight run to and from the dragon to wherever you need to go.

SL is def the hardest, having basic defenders with crippling strike is a bit much and there's always a huge amount of spawns, AO has dragons which have a very very annoying fear aura, TC is fairly easy being that you can avoid most of the town guards and run straight to the cradle, their defenders aren't much either, NC is a little harder being that its in the hardest to reach place and that their guards are overly dispell happy, im not entirely certain about RK but from what ive heard and seen our defenders are pretty weak too and our cradle never seems to have much going on in it.

im not saying anything is biased just offering my own observations

*edited due to poor spelling

[VagaStorm]

in my humble opinion i would say MA is most certainly the easiest faction to raid, their defenders are mostly just wipe aways, even their epics arent that tough, when they run dry on spells they cant really do anything, its also very easy to get in and out of ma, its a straight run to and from the dragon to wherever you need to go.

SL is def the hardest, having basic defenders with crippling strike is a bit much and there's always a huge amount of spawns, AO has dragons which have a very very annoying fear aura, TC is fairly easy being that you can avoid most of the town guards and run straight to the cradle, their defenders aren't much either, NC is a little harder being that its in the hardest to reach place and that their guards are overly dispell happy, im not entirely certain about RK but from what ive heard and seen our defenders are pretty weak too and our cradle never seems to have much going on in it.

im not saying anything is biased just offering my own observations

*edited due to poor spelling

There are 3 ways into SL to, altho one of em is very rarely used I belive, but its still had to know where raders will come from there. The regular SL guards are the hardest, with that poisen spider thing at the top.... The epics I dont know, once my buffs ran out while fighting one, so I used an elemental shield potion and let him kill him self...

I find NC epics the hardest, get one and it's hard to kill, get a group ant they eat ya.

MA defenders are easy to kill once they run out of spells, bu thers ALWAY so bloody many of em.

Been a while since I fought the AO defenders, but they are more like the nc ones, just alot weaker.

TC defenders have som ac, but hardly much trouble.

I have yet to figure out which one is suposed to be the "epic" defender in RK. :p

[Bargeld]

My experience, In order of difficulty:

NC - They always spawn RIGHT on the cradle, and rarely just one. 2x smite for 350 each = dead. And that's just the first round against the first defender. If you aren't evil, I would assume they are a bit more tame and probably won't top your list.

RK - Pure monk, AC has gotta be near 70, stun DC of about 50. I don't care who you are... Ow.

SL - Regular mobs that cripple and dispel. Epics that assassinate. I believe there are a couple current RK'ers that have boycotted raiding SL due to the amount of deaths they've had while attempting. Personally, I have boycotted soloing NC for the same reason.

AO - Dragon sight, immune to KD and a bunch of greatswords. The map makes this a very tough room to clear.

MA - I raided MA once, almost a year ago. If you can survive the initial onslaught of 3 to 4 epic casters, expect to spend another 10 mins killing them. Do-able.

TC - The hardest part of TC is running to the Wolf Den without getting dispelled. The regular mobs in town have real true sight, making it worse. Laufer (monk SD) cannot solo raid here due to their true sight and his loooow damage output. It's just a hopeless battle. Close quarters and a ton of grease make it quite chaotic, but doable for most.

Some builds work better than others in each situation, so this list is surely biased towards my toon experiences. Arm yourself with a variety of 30+ toons and you should be able to pick a winner for each cradle.

I would like to see more 40s across the board in all factions in order to really assess. Epics are like cr 45+ and are supposed to be tough, especially if you only have 1 or 2 lvl 30-35 toons to raid. Lets have a re-vote in another month or so