Using other faction characters to defend a relic cradle

[Fezz]

Ok last night Sion Jalis TSS and zach Gein CLAD were in MA defending. I was under the impression that this has been talked about before and it was decided that you werent to do it - especially seeing as 1. They arent allies 2. There in fact enemies according to faction blogs.

To make this even Worse im going to come right out and say it - there was a DM on watching and the DM (i wont name here) did nothing even when we brang it to the attention of the whole server on shout.

You can all flame my post here if you like but the fact of THIS matter is i can tell you if it had been some other people i know doing this something would of been done immediately. BTW i know im not privy to tells but if you kill them and they keep coming back they are either ignoring a DM tell to their face or really dumb - so ill assume they werent even told to stop.

Im only bringing this up for discusion, AND because its yet another example of the unfair and biased nature of things going on that others have mentioned and the reason people are recently taking breaks etc.

Anyone who is in power and wants to investigate this further feel free to PM me i can tell you what i know including the other 3 or 4 witnesses to this.

[DM_Kim]

Oh what can we say. hmmmm

First there was 1 DM on but 3. We all pulled out our Faction defender to raider calculators and got busy inputting all the variables. By the time we had done all our calculations the raiding was pretty much over and 1/2 the players had logged to go to bed.

Now that's a rather silly reply to your concern. So here's a more realistic one.

First of all there is no hard core rule about what faction defends or raids in what combination. I find it rather silly myself to see mortal enemies assisting one another. By the same token combining various factions makes for some of the most exciting PvP raiding/defending anyone could ask for. It gives a chance also for the weaker factions to get in a shot at grabbing their own relic.. or the opportunity to challenge themselves in a good multi=player smack-down raid.

That being said, even we DM's don't know what alliances or deals have been made between various guilds or factions. And Rightly so. That's their business. After all ,it's their game too. If we thought for an instant that this would hurt game play in a major way in Aetheria you can bet that Rules would spring up. However, our goal is to make Aether a server of fun and not of rules. So players are given a lot of latitude to play with who-ever, when ever they wish. If we enforced that enemy factions could not join up together for a common goal then we DM's would have to get busy breaking up leveling parties, gear hunting party etc.. I'm positive that no one what that kind of Aetheria.

Like I said at the start, watching sworn enemies defending a raid.. like last eve where TSS helped out IO is silly, but heck maybe IO made a deal with TSS to have one or two of their PM's escort TSS into HoD for gear. Who knows but them.

Now, do you really want us to start stepping on toes because of this?

[Benjamin Linus]

I know this has been discussed in the past and the outcome is usually "Different DMs feel differently about this." Unfortunately the subject keeps coming up because a definitive decision has never been made, no consistency.

It does definitely seem as though theres some kind of hesitation on some DMs parts lately to assist LA members in any way shape or form. I can understand if maybe some of the "underdog" factions might need a little help sometimes, like an extra body on a raid or something, but I've seen LA members completely ignored for even simple requests like "I'm stuck" or regaining faction status (which should really have some kind of in-game way to do it, but thats a whole 'nother topic). Let alone fixing the broken LA job messenger token. Almost like they are thinking "I better stay away from LA, if someone praises me for something the rest of the server will complain I'm helping the overdogs (<-is that even a word? you know what I mean)."

But anyways, yeah TSS and CLAD tagged charactors defending the MA relic. I saw an IO drop a relic off to a FoN the other day. If we have to guess what the rules are at any given time, judging by the consistency that those factions can and do do that kind of thing, it looks like theres no rules.

[Blystos Re]

For sake of arguement, Linus, in my experience a relog will take care of lost faction due to AoE, etc.

Fezz, if you have screen-shots of this then I'd like to see them. Please PM them to me.
Lovely how I keep hearing that we're so low in numbers that we can't defend our cradle...

[Ajantis.]

“The enemy of my enemy is my friend?”

Impromptu alliances have happened repeatedly through time. Generally they are short lived. Also, CLAD & IO were at an all out war for a short time, but much like when boys fight in schoolyards, the next day or so they become friends again (well, sometimes). This is probably a similar situation.

I can recall CLAD & Slaves helping each other against the MDs on a few occasions last year. It's the kind of thing that a quick alliance of convenience may and can occur when the threat is severe enough.

But for the record, I really don't know the circumstances about why they were defending MA, however, TSS & CLAD have a close alliance and we often adventure together. Thank goodness we have a guild meeting soon....

[DM_Kim]

RE: Benjamin Linus

I can not speak as to what another DM's opinion maybe just as they would not speak as to what my opinion on something maybe. However, I have not witness anyone getting ignored. At least not on my watch. When and where "justified" help is needed then it is given.

Now it also has been posted in the past that some DM's will not respond to Channel DM: Hey I'm stuck. Pull me out.. To tell you the true, if a request like that hit me, I would probably ignore it. At least, use a certain amount of politeness when requesting DM assistance. Keep in mind also that some DM's maybe on in a RP role and will only respond to a request when posed in an RP fashion. That has been the way since Aetheria was created. Helping or not helping over/underdog has nothing to do with it.

At no time has it ever been mentioned that "We DM's better not help LA because it will look like we favor the strong. So you can lose that part in a hurry.

As far as faction status goes. Your absolutely right. Some.. and I will say it again.. Some players who lose their faction will not gain it back. That has nothing to do with the faction they are in, but how the player treats the faction they are in.

Losing a faction the very first time is pretty much viewed as a mistake and a player learning the ropes. Even a second time it can be viewed as a mistake, but when we're dealing with players that have been around for a long time, have played various factions and who insist on casting AoE spells that turn them hostile because a faction NPC walks into it, then a line gets drawn. We are not here to reset factions ever time someone decides "Oh what the hell the DM's will fix it." It is as simple as that. Experienced players know that most AoE's will cost them their faction. A players faction privilege is something to be protected to the best of a player's ability. Not something to be fixed over and over.

In regard to MA dropping off relics to NC. I agree with you on that. It's one thing for aligned factions to do that verse non aligned. There will be some rules coming as well as some changes to the relic system. Nothing is in place or fixed atm, but is under discussion. We are taking all concerns that have been expressed into account. Boy oh boy are there ever a lot of concerns.

[Metis]

Tagged or not I have seen it in every faction, tc guarding la, la guarding ma, nc helping sl I have seen it all the only time it was ever said no was during the relic event. Could some God be displeased her followers are helping someone and give them a hard time? Sure but something like that is along the immortal persona, if someone is breaking the rules exploiting etc, you wont see that kind of action when rules are broken its not any "God" coming after you its a DM. This is one of those things that unless some kind of event is involved it does fall on the DM personality, if I decided to take an action it wouldn't be suddenly porting them out or killing them I like the more RP so I am sure I could come up with something that doesnt outright kill them but strikes a little fear.

Outside of that as Kim said, unless it is something that is damaging the community we wont make more rules as my favorite saying goes:
"Kill em all let the Gods sort em out"

Just for you Linus I will find the post regarding faction loss, if its still around, its been discussed many times

[Celorn]

First of all there is no hard core rule about what faction defends or raids in what combination. I find it rather silly myself to see mortal enemies assisting one another. By the same token combining various factions makes for some of the most exciting PvP raiding/defending anyone could ask for. It gives a chance also for the weaker factions to get in a shot at grabbing their own relic.. or the opportunity to challenge themselves in a good multi=player smack-down raid.

That being said, even we DM's don't know what alliances or deals have been made between various guilds or factions. And Rightly so. That's their business. After all ,it's their game too. If we thought for an instant that this would hurt game play in a major way in Aetheria you can bet that Rules would spring up.

Like I said at the start, watching sworn enemies defending a raid..

Not that anyone would necessarily do this, but you're saying there would be no problem if for example; some people in LA were to relog a shifter or a pale master to defend LA?? Hmm... Something tells me that would create a gigantic 'stink'.

[DM_Kim]

First of all there is................

Not that anyone would necessarily do this, but you're saying there would be no problem if for example; some people in LA were to relog a shifter or a pale master to defend LA?? Hmm... Something tells me that would create a gigantic 'stink'.

Word games. Got to love them. Good one Celorn.
I have seen... no I have played against PM's and Shifters defending in LA as well as in other factions. So there. Been there, seen that, had a coffee and bought the t-shirt.

I perosnally would not raise a "sink" right now. But you seem to have missed...

In regard to MA dropping off relics to NC. I agree with you on that. It's one thing for aligned factions to do that verse non aligned. There will be some rules coming as well as some changes to the relic system. Nothing is in place or fixed atm, but is under discussion. We are taking all concerns that have been expressed into account. Boy oh boy are there ever a lot of concerns.

The list of concerns is very large, I must say, but there is always room for one more. Lets see if I have this one worded right.. "faction players logging out and logging back in with non faction characters to defend." Correct me if I am wrong please.

[Aarkon Draco]

well when you ( LA ) hoards all the relics constantly you will end up having the whole server against you.

AFAIK the only rule regarding other factions and raiding is you cant login on x faction toon and raid y faction cradel to only relog with z faction toon to capp ( IE you cant login your lvl 40 PM to raid RK and then relog in some quiet zone to give your TC toon the relic to cap ) deffending is not covered in the rule.

and you also have to concider the numbers LA has over the rest of the server. LA having 6+ players on a almost 24hour basis means that other factions with only 2 or 3 players at any given time needs to use allys or even hostile faction players to aid them.

i wont even go into the exsploiting of epic deffenders and other "tatics" that some use.

all in all it comes down to this .. when your "king of the mountian" you have the whole world aginst you deal with it or get off the peak

[Amoenotep]

you can defend anyone you want to....but if you drop relics for another faction other than your own when i'm watching, i'll just dm kill you and let you lay there...

[Terl]

I was under the impression that transporting the relic to an opposing faction was a no-no, but dropping one say after a raid was ok (Since you can't be sure in the order relics come out of the cradle). Especially when 2 or more factions ally temporarily to go after the offending faction. I whole heartedly agree with Ajantis...The enemy of my enemy is my friend...at least until I can PK him later and take the relic.

[Celorn]

Well... that's what those 'untagged LA people' WANT -- the rest of the server coming to them so they can PvP. Really, the relic bonus -should- go to the faction with the most people in it, logically that benefits the greatest percentage, no? I remember a time when AO/RK made up half the server, and then the rise and fall of MA showed similar numbers... etc.

I get involved sometimes for fun, but I find it gets old. I like NS4 for PvM as much as PvE, especially as the AI gets smarter and more challenging.

on a side note:

I'd love to see some other things for lvl40's to do on the server, like say, if you have a party of allied or same-faction people in an area, or plane and they kill the boss of that plane, then that faction 'OWNS' that area until someone else comes along and beats the boss... And during that period of 'owning' the area, there is an XP bonus for people of the same faction (and their alies - perhaps some % less?)

[Amoenotep]

i remember when SL held relics for a long time and they weren't the dominate faction on the server, never had the numbers....its all a game of chance.


as far as owning an area, wouldn't that further tip the balance of xp to the larger factions since the largest factions could "own" all the best parts of the server. then that faction would be the only faction worth playing in?

[Apokriphos]

I'd love to see some other things for lvl40's to do on the server, like say, if you have a party of allied or same-faction people in an area, or plane and they kill the boss of that plane, then that faction 'OWNS' that area until someone else comes along and beats the boss... And during that period of 'owning' the area, there is an XP bonus for people of the same faction (and their alies - perhaps some % less?)

I think this is an interesting idea, it would add some nice roleplay and a lot of spice to the server. Of course, it would have to be made so this xp bonus doesn't stack with the relic bonus. Or maybe they both can stack, up to the 50% limit?

That would allow two (or more) factions to both hold relics and still get some relatively useful bonus xp. It would also lower the incentive for everyone to play in one faction solely because they are the flavor of the month and have the numbers to hold it. And third, it would increase the roleplay portion of pvm, especially with certain factions holding sway over powerful places, like plane of water or positive plane.