Shifter fix?

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Spura
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Post by Spura »

Perhaps devs could get a script from NWVault that fixes shifter character save bug to tie us over till 1.63
As far as I can tell bio intends to fix all prehistoric NWN bugs. In addition Georg Zoeller said that this patch will get EXTENDED beta so I don't think we can expect 1.63 in less than a month. In the meanwhile I can't level. Seriously. I get 30 exp from ogres and I can't kill tree smashers, amazons or stuff in haddon mirk crypt.

The problem is I am happy fighting doing 15 damage per hit and monsters do 1-5 damage per hit. Then server saves. I do 1-5 damage and monsters do 15 to me. Drop in AC also makes them hit more often.
I often die before I can react! Lag only makes it worse. So every now and then I die because of this losing 650 exp which is usually just as much as I have made or a bit less. I am same level for few days now. I tried partying but I can't get a party always and I get either a party that is so high level or numerous exp from treesmashers and the like is low or party is so low level we need 5 minutes per giant with strong chances of dying. Anyway the problem with this bug is that it probably ain't getting fixed any time soon and it kills me so often I gain no exp from playing.
Yestraday 7 p. m. my time
44 players on server 1, 0 of them shifters isn't that odd. :D

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Post by DrakhanValane »

You act as if there's a new server build every night. :)
If you tilt your head far enough and squint hard enough, anything becomes as simple or complex as you'd like--regardless of whether it is or not. -- A lesson learned from Stephen Wolfram's A New Kind of Science

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Post by Quiett »

Well, this may be a bit off topic, but ..

If The DEV's are gonig to spend any time 'fixing' a PrC that is underpowered, why not start with the Harper Scout. Seems to me that the Scout is ALOT more underpowered than the Shifter

Why not give the Scout let's see. um Spells, Sneak Attack, more AC, more AB, ummm. Immunity to fire, lightning, magic, Death, attacks from fighters. umm lets see. . . 10xp hp per level would be nice. . . um. . . oh yeah, a 100% bonus.. no a 250% bonus to XP. umm.. Yeah, that would make it a useful PrC instead of using it the way it was designed.

Or, just leave it the way it is. A weak, underpowered PrC that no-one will use and spend all that time on the World instead.

I'm sorry, but I'm getting a bit tired of hearing about the Shifter class.

Rant over.

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Post by Brennan068 »

You are right, that was off topic. If you are tired of hearing about the shifter class, don't read the threads titled "Shifter fix?"

The difference between the shifter and the Harper Scout is that the shifter is an effective class if it wasn't for the known bugs (losing all merged items on server saves.) Harpers work as designed; that isn't to say that their design is good, just that they work as advertised.

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Post by Spura »

Hm ok here is a quote from thread Shifter 101 on bioware forums:

general guide to builds
Builds:
This section addresses the common, and not so common builds I have seen. Either way, they are the most effective ones I have seen. Note that for all builds, you can use the favorable stat spread to go for feats like dev crit, or in some cases, epic feats like self concealment, or the more easily reached and effective damage reduction.

Druid/shifter/monk-
suggested stats:
str 8
dex 8
con 16+
wis 17, finish at 30+
int 8+
cha 8
The first build posted when HotU came out and for obvious reasons. Wisdom is needed for many of the epic shapes, which in turns lead to very high AC and a bit better stunnning fist DC. The exploitation of the unarmed attack progression allows for 5 attacks per round which without proper building, a shifter has only 3 attacks per round. Not to mention all the other goodies like evasion, improved knockdown, cleave, monkspeed. Unlike other builds, a strong defense, coupled with a strong melee presence, and able to gain a high amount of druid lvls allow for good spellpower. Powerful and versatile, this build doesn't slouch for much of anything.

On the con side, the shifter/monk suffers from being flatfooted. Their reliance on the unarmed forms means a lot of DR mobs make them ineffective. Monk means there's only 3 attacks per round for the weapon forms. And most of the unarmed forms dont merge items, which means the main strength of item versatility is less than other shifters.

Druid/shifter/defender:
Suggest stats:
str 8+
dex 13+
con 16+
int 8+
wis 13+
cha 6

I'm a little biased, I like the defender/shifter a lot. Damage reduction with risen lord or stone golem for example means mobs have to deal twice as much as your DR in items and natural, to even scratch you if doing pierce/slash. (25% for golem pierce though). On top of that, your normally weaker nuker forms like death slaad can always benefit from damage reduction. You can even make most defenders jealous by surviving in spell dangerous areas with rakshasha. Unlike other defenders, who have to spread themselves kind of thin in terms of offense/defense, either losing out on DR by going for dmg reduction, a shifter can potentially have 46 str and 18/- DR as a dragon for example. 4 attacks in any shape means a good melee presence. If you go the low wisdom route by going only 13 wisdom, you can gain dev crit with a kobold commando which has 5d6 sneak attack, 18/- DR, and 26+ str quite easily. Something about seeing, str 28, dex 27, con 21 is oddly satisfying on your character sheet, same for other shapes if you focus on con, the least changed stat, its always nice to have a high hp pool. They also can't get flanked, so as long as you attack, that means no enemy flanking sneak attack. Which means, your normal sneak attack immune form, can now be swapped for a more favorable damaging form.

Cons, gaining lvls in druid takes away from your defense. Relying on shifter for your offense ultimately means you're only as good as another shifter which is not that great. Pre-epic lvling is a pain.

druid/shifter/paladin or blackguard
This build is kind of fun, divine might/shield allows for more damage/AC, and the warrior multi class means 4 attacks per round. I like being dwarf for this build, because your normally ugly dwarf, who has an easy time for epic damage reduction, can now get rid of their ugliness via shifting (i.e. that +2 con is useful for damage reduction, and that -2 cha goes away when shifted). Not to mention, bless weapon, deafening clang, and the stat buffs that a pally has are nice. Try an epic kobold commando with divine damage and acid is hilarious, not to mention 27 dex, and +1 size modifier means your normal whiffing shifter, can now hit with the best of them or run away. This build also has 4 attacks, taunt also helps you hit.

Cons, flatfootedness. Slow pre-epic lvling.

Druid/shifter/wizard:
Puff by cdaullep is the prime example here, a strong spellcasting presence coupled with epic spells, and epic shapes allow for some nice melee and spell options. Not to mention it uses the highest lvl caster class, which is good since you get better SR penetration for rak spells. You can also empower magic missiles, and acid sheathes that no other shifter could. Mage armor helps the shifter a lot more than other classes, and surpasses what monk/shifter could have in terms of wisdom boni.

Cons, very crummy attacks, tends to have to decide between spell power and shifter power.

Druid/shifter/rogue or assassin.
I personally like assassin best, since it stacks with the kobold sneak attacks. The main power of these builds is that you gain offense (in terms of sneaks) and skill selection. The druid/shifter skill list is pretty sad, but put in use magic device, open locks, tumble, etc, and you got a nice picker who gets a boost via shifting, and doesn't die like other pickers nearly as often. Best part is, you can gain this skill selection with a relatively small amount of lvls.

Cons, 3 attacks per round.

Druid/shifter/weaponmaster risen lord
Lockindal posted this first as a viable build, the shifter with a whip/tower shield is pretty nice. Specialized to be sure, but risen lord is not a slouch for any department in terms of immunities, and the bonus to hit covers the weakness of shifters nicely. You also get 4 attacks per round.

The con side is one form, which is a lot, you may need to shift to another form, but you don't get a nice scythe then. To gain that nice attack bonus associated with WM, you need lots of lvls in it, which means the other shapes are hard to gain without great wisdom, and your druid/shifters are low.

Conclusion:
Hope that helps you build your shifter for their 3rd class. NWN is nice since it let's you pick whatever class, and I've seen a lot of builds just go ftr/druid/shifter for example, and not really have much to look forward to and/or use the shifter's strength.

Notice something?

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Post by Spura »

DrakhanValane wrote:You act as if there's a new server build every night. :)
Well I just had an idea. I played on Bastions of War server and I have noticed that they avoid shifter bug just by not saving polymorphed chars. Server saves every 5 min but it doesn't save any polymorphed chars. So could devs make same kind of script here? Change the save script so it skips saving all chars in polymorphed state? That would be awesome, since I could still save by unshifting and resting. What do you think of this idea?

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Post by JesterOI »

Harper Scout?
Screw working on that.
I say fix classes that people actually try to play or are played at all :lol:
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Post by Spura »

You can't fix Harper Scout since Harper scout is not a class at all. YOu can only take 5 levels of it. Thus 35 fighter 5 harper scout is not harper scout he is fighter with extra abilities. And wizard 35 harper scout 5 is mage with soem oether stuff. Saying harper class is underpowered is stupid sicne unlike shifter it is not a class but kinda addon

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Post by Spura »

The thing to notice about quote from shifter 101 is that NONE of those viable builds are allowed in NS. Yep only stupidest multis available here. Now move along, nothing to see here(obviously).

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Post by JesterOI »

Let's just drop this shifter bs.
The devs said that the shifter is customizable.
They'll do something good with it, be patient.
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Post by rkanodia »

Jester, the thing is, Lokey has asked for player feedback on what we'd like to see them do. So feel free to weigh in with your own thoughts and wishes, and especially pop in to the player polls forum and vote on the topic if you haven't yet!

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Post by DrakhanValane »

The only things that really get tiring is when people only ask for "improvements to shifters" that don't involve the class itself, just other classes they think it should be multiclassed with. That doesn't improve the shifter class; it just shows that the class isn't right the way it is now.
If you tilt your head far enough and squint hard enough, anything becomes as simple or complex as you'd like--regardless of whether it is or not. -- A lesson learned from Stephen Wolfram's A New Kind of Science

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Post by JesterOI »

DrakhanValane wrote:The only things that really get tiring is when people only ask for "improvements to shifters" that don't involve the class itself, just other classes they think it should be multiclassed with. That doesn't improve the shifter class; it just shows that the class isn't right the way it is now.


That what I meant.

As for input for the devs.
Shifter seems like a bard in the way that it's a jack of all trades.
Make it that way.
Essentially in the end have different forms for different general class types, but not to the full extent of power as actually being that general class type. 80-90% as powerful as a different class type of the same level.

Then split those class types down the middle by making defensive types (hard to kill, but low on offensive power), and offensive types (easier to kill, but kill stuff easier also).
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Post by Throst54 »

no no no shifter is transforming into things and beatign the crap out of other thigns!
Type post, tab tab enter, wait 4page 2 load, shift+tab tab enter, REPEAT!!!
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Post by JesterOI »

I was speaking in generalities. :idea:
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