Change to shifters (all shapes not just shifters)

[SkotG]

I don't quite know why shifters need to use boots twice most of us make use with one pair at a time.

Ah, but science clearly reveals that some shifters have four feet.

^ ^

son of a !

ya beat me to it!

[Rufio]

My first toon post-wipe was a wiz fight WM, balor shape. You may find an unpleasant surprise at the end of the shapechange spell path. I know I did.

Man, what a downer. I was looking to do something different like this but you've already been there, done that, got burnt. Thanks for posting the stats on those shapes. Craptacular!

and can't those forms be morded and dispelled? They also have terrible durations. Even if they were powerful they wouldn't really be worth building.

I don't know what type of gear you have in those screens, but ac can be much higher than that. Before the nerf I could get at least 70 ac in balor form on one of my shifter builds in game that was in no way focused on balor. Shapechange builds would be somewhat feasible if the duration was increased and they were made undispellable, though they would have to be made unscribable so not just any old umder can become a shapechange build.

[Daral0085]

Yes, obviously he was lacking gear (stripped?). Wearing a basic set of gear, with no dex and 4 tumble, lands you somewhere around 50 AC. It only goes up from there if you're a dexer, blinding, div shield, monk levels, etc.

[Rufio]

Being a dexer won't change anything, it has a set dex.

[Bargeld]

Actually i was fully geared with +6 plate. In discussion tonight, we figured you could get mid 60's MAYBE 70 with gith +4 and ema and some other stuff. The ab would still max at about 56 self, 63 with ava/song. Mords = no, dispel = yes, but really need to have focus in order to dispel a not focused. Focused vs focused would be 31 +d20 vs 46 on the dispel check. It's the +11 ab you guys get that is the biggest difference. 65 ac and 70 ab would be useful, considering you could still cast if unshifted (albeit you would be a gimpy normal mage, ahem, the complaint of most druid/shifters.)

One other caveat is that you lose your spell slots due to helm merge, which is a pain too.

But taking dragon shapechange spell as the example, you would only need to have 20 bab, unarmed focuses, and focus in the school. In hindsight, you'd be more easily dispelled with, say 17 wiz levels in order to get that bab and 9th lvl spells and still get the disc skills as a dump near 40.

[mining]

Actually i was fully geared with +6 plate. In discussion tonight, we figured you could get mid 60's MAYBE 70 with gith +4 and ema and some other stuff. The ab would still max at about 56 self, 63 with ava/song. Mords = no, dispel = yes, but really need to have focus in order to dispel a not focused. Focused vs focused would be 31 +d20 vs 46 on the dispel check. It's the +11 ab you guys get that is the biggest difference. 65 ac and 70 ab would be useful, considering you could still cast if unshifted (albeit you would be a gimpy normal mage, ahem, the complaint of most druid/shifters.)

One other caveat is that you lose your spell slots due to helm merge, which is a pain too.

But taking dragon shapechange spell as the example, you would only need to have 20 bab, unarmed focuses, and focus in the school. In hindsight, you'd be more easily dispelled with, say 17 wiz levels in order to get that bab and 9th lvl spells and still get the disc skills as a dump near 40.

Unarmed focuses do nothing for unarmed shifters. Balor is the form to go with, imo.

[Eldaquen]

My druid in Balor shape from shapechange spell has:

51 AC

45/40/35 AB

That is almost fully buffed. AoV adds +2 to AC and AB. I am not as skilled as Bargeld otherwise I'd post a screen print as well of it.

Course my builds saving grace is SD levels and Hips, so AC is usually less of a concern for SD's.

That build in dragon using Shape change spell has:

55 AC

44/41/38/35/32 AB, yes it has monk levels, which is reason uses spell to be a dragon. Again Hips is savings grace of build.

Interesting how druid version has higher AC but lower ab and vs versa for wizard.

[Ryddwillow]

Doesn't look too bad from what I've seen... still plenty of shifters in the 70+ AC range. Fairly minor IMO.

Really? that is a good AC vs other classes? The Big Dragon is bigger then the pure fighter and a pure fighter can wipe his arse with the dead dragon with normal druids buff.

My Fatzo build cleric (Locomotive Breath) defeated the Druid Dragons of old, Hello? Mcfly you there.

This is a PVP, not a PVM server. If you build for the monster and role play it kudos for you. 98% of us play for keeps and I do know how to play many a toon here, so if you spout on forums as if you know some some secret about shifters in which YOU changed then please enlighten us with this with held information. Otherwise my wise suggestion would to raid with a party with normal gear and save us all this conversation.

[Ryddwillow]

Response?

[cRaZy8or5e]

Response?

You're wrong.

EDIT: let me expound.

The entire premise that a pure druid dragon should be able to beat a pure fighter straight up in a melee fight is wrong in and of itself.

The premise that a pure druid dragon can't beat a pure fighter has been proven wrong as well. Depending on circumstances and builds, a pure druid dragon with a summon and a hellball is my odds on favorite to beat a non-stunner pure fighter anyway. In that case though;

a dragon vs a non-stunning fist pure fighter;

it gets to be more about rolls and the builds and the player than one having a definitive advantage over the other.

But even still, I think a pure fighter by its very name should have a better chance at beating a druid dragon anyway.

[Shadowalker]

Response?

You're wrong.

Hes Willow