Linux, my dragon sux now, fix it!

[burrahobbit]

I think most of the RDD dragons start +20 ab cap at 26(lvl 40 bab)+31(str modifier)+1(epic prowess)-2(size modifier)=56 (capped at 76 although it's still uber). The dragon claw should count towards 20 cap. Correct me if I am wrong.

I havent really been on topic and i apologize but i have enjoyed this thread. Nerfing all builds outside of NC makes me happy, and should, in my opinion, be the main focus of all Neversummer staff members.

The claws dont count towards the + 20 cap, same as epic wpn focus and prowess dont apply to ab.

*sticks another pin in his RDD dragon Vodoo doll*
*sends subconcious messages to loki, tep, and linux, NERF RDD"S, NERF ASSASINS, NERF DwD's, NERF PALE.... wait, no leave PM's alone*

[Tru3Fals3]

wont be posting anything more here but im going to be doing some experiments on one of the monk rdd dragons and comparing that to the fighter version i have, i can pm some of the numbers and observations on that if you'd like to see them lokey, is the current state final or is testing still going?

[Lokey]

Nothing is ever final. See the thread title, I've other fish to nerf.

[DM_Kim]

make sure we are keeping this topic on point...we'll get around to nerfing everyone's build eventually

Nothing is ever final. See the thread title, I've other fish to nerf.

I vote that we bring back the 25 max level cap on PC's. That would end all needed nerfing. Those days were such fun.

[mgrjebbo]

Agreed.

[Korr]

The dragon claws seem to be applied just like a monks gloves. . . its +ab, and would count towards the cap.


RDD are do have a really strong PvP presence especially in melee but I know truefalse can back this point up:

I remember a day when all the relics got brought to NC (poor AO such a long walk). So AO was coming to get their relics back, truefalse was on his dragon and a hipser. I was on a pure bard and a my dire tiger shifter (barbarian/druid/shifter (about 75 max AB, 22 str mod behind a halberd)). If I recall correctly neil was on a bard so he had a bard to buff him and I had a bard to buff me. All in all, it came down to rolls between his dragon and my dire tiger. . . and this dire tiger was designed for epic DR. . . not AC (which could bump to about 75 as well if dex based). I was not wearing full pierce/slash gear so I could have negated 15% and 10/- more damage from his attacks if i threw on the appropriate gear (dunno what he was wearing), nor was I wearing a +8 weapon to break his RDD DR. But it was a good fight, AND my dire tiger also can see hipsers too (just like dragons can).


So all in all. . . whine all you want, but in the end what makes the difference is BUILD BETTER seeing as this was ALL pre-rdd dragon nerf. I doubt any non-monk (just cuz of their number of attacks) can now take my buffed tiger on.

[burrahobbit]

I'll take that bet Korr.

Last i checked you cant make dire tigers in NC though. You missed the point because you build in every faction. The point of my whines is that it is very tough to combat high ac chars in NC. Sure there are ways of doing this, i know them, we use them, but the lack of mages makes it much more complicated in NC than in MA. Can we at least agree on that?

Can i build a char that can take down a RDD dragon fully buffed pre nerf, sure. I already have one. If they lacked bard and cleric buffeds it wouldnt have been that complicated of a fight. I refuse however to use non TC or NC chars to raid or defend for NC. From an NC'rs point of view, those dragons are overpowered. Do they scare me when i play MA, no. Can i build a counter for any char out there, sure. The question i am asking is can you build a counter for every char in NC.

In my head this seems very clear, maybe i am not explaining very well, or maybe i am just plain wrong.

[mgrjebbo]

Nope that is an excellent point, and the best response to a "build better" statement that I have seen to date.

[Korr]

Yeah I agree with what youre saying burra. I made my dire tiger before the dragons were ever existant, its an older toon. Rex is even older, and I think with the buffs around for him too he could give a dragon a run for its money (esp an evil one)

[Amoenotep]

not every faction has a counter for every other faction...its the way of ns4

[Ajantis.]

CLAD/FoN have not been the long standing guilds they are from existing in the most powerful faction. In fact, I would argue that they have such history from dealing with so much adversity.

[burrahobbit]

No more complaints out of me, i am glad someone finally said it. NS4 is unbalanced intentionally. Now that we have that in the open we should get less complaints about overpowered half ogre pixie ploymorph druids.

[DM_Kim]

It's not that NS4 is unbalanced intentionally. It's that there are pro's and cons to every faction. Those who stick with just one faction are going to have their difficulties. That's why there are some who make PC's in every faction taking advantage of the best each has to offer.

NS4 is balanced in regard that there is always a counter build to any build. Just have to figure out which it is, what faction you would need to be from to make the best you can be.

[Shadowalker]

It's not that NS4 is unbalanced intentionally. It's that there are pro's and cons to every faction. Those who stick with just one faction are going to have their difficulties. That's why there are some who make PC's in every faction taking advantage of the best each has to offer.

NS4 is balanced in regard that there is always a counter build to any build. Just have to figure out which it is, what faction you would need to be from to make the best you can be.

Yes... but if we jump in and out of bed with every faction, we'd be a server of (A)narchist...

Ill just deal with the diffrences, and trust the Gods to to keep it from getting absurd.

What the unbalance does provide is chaotic and temporay alliances with Dwarves or Arcanist, etc

[cRaZy8or5e]

not every faction has a counter for every other faction...its the way of ns4

It's not that NS4 is unbalanced intentionally. It's that there are pro's and cons to every faction. Those who stick with just one faction are going to have their difficulties. That's why there are some who make PC's in every faction taking advantage of the best each has to offer.

NS4 is balanced in regard that there is always a counter build to any build. Just have to figure out which it is, what faction you would need to be from to make the best you can be.

So what you're saying is, you're eternally striving for balance and you frown on metagaming.

But you intend for it not to be balanced, and you encourage metagaming?

Balance is tough. 4 dex change makes a character unplayable yet a 6 ac exploit (tenuous exploit, didn't bother doing anything about it at the time) is just fine I had to make sure it wasn't a full monk ac exploit, i.e. a 15-20 ac one.

cRaZy8or5e, if it were that simple, we'd have lots more things done and tons of content in that had to be dropped because it didn't work as advertised (I really had wanted to do more and multiple meta-magics for example and spent a ton of time working on it, but couldn't clear the last few bugs).

Lokey I don't think that doing what you and Linux do is in any way simple. The intent of my earlier statement was to give credit to the mountains you guys are leaping/moving to make things the way they are. If one is working with "shoddy" code, the potential for stupid and unexplainable errors grows exponentially. I don't envy you guys one bit.