When is enough enough?

[MasterYoda]

no I get that kids pwn games... lol

kromix is gonna be a daddy and his parents said no more gaming during the week ....

doesn't stop me though I still have dial up at home lol.

[Flailer]

Wow, such a fruitful topic come to such waste....

[MasterYoda]

JUST FOR FLIALER

back on topic....

builds are builds. the bigest thing people don't realize is that everyones complaint is specific to a certain build you build.

oh man some cleric imploded me.

now lets look at this. what class were u? what level were u? what level was he? all these things take effct in this type of complaint. I haven't herd any barbs saying '' man I hate those imploding clerics''

if ur a rouge type and u get imploded it would be silly to complain about something that is clearly a downside to the build.

with the people running around also I rarely have seen lots and lots lvl 40s. I really don't see y a level 40 should be capped to level 20 gear.

granted we don't want it to turn into ns 3 but it never will.

theres pvp, relics, factions and a whole lot more.

this new gear is level dependant people. its not like a level 1 will be able to suit up with draco blades.....

[TheBestDeception]

builds are builds. the bigest thing people don't realize is that everyones complaint is specific to a certain build you build.

oh man some cleric imploded me.

now lets look at this. what class were u? what level were u? what level was he? all these things take effct in this type of complaint. I haven't herd any barbs saying '' man I hate those imploding clerics''

Forgive me, but you're misinterpretting the Epic Spell DC. That DC is specifically reffering to "Epic Spells", such as Greater Ruin, and Hellball, since their previous DC was no greater than that of a fully focused 9th level spell.

then disregard my previous rant.....at least about the spells, item disappointments still apply.

Back on topic.........

+10 does seem a bit much for stat increases, mainly due to the cap of +12 overall for increases in an ability score.

Only allowing for a magical +2 drastically decreases the purpose of being a caster (and losing BAB / having to increase another stat for casting purposes), by making the gains negligible. Increasing weapon bonuses past +4 does the same (greater magic weapon), though this is obviously old news.

Should this be decided to be implemented, let me go roll my Fighter / WM / class with tumble that everyone will running around with.

[P. Fricebottle]

I thought +8 was the maximum for level 40. Also the -BB- workshop has found that the changes (as I post this) haven't been implemented into the crafting system yet, the upgrade option isn't implemented.

[MasterYoda]

*points at the rest of the quote*

those r level 40 items. a level one can't use em so what's the problem.

what's the poing of being level 40 if u get the same thing minus a couple of featsand hp.

?

I think it should be mandatory to have level 40 gear.

drop everything to +4 for weapons and watch everyone make clerics for a +5 weapon.

this is nowhere near ns3 ..... no where near.

[P. Fricebottle]

this is nowhere near ns3 ..... no where near.

Quoted for truth, do you guys not remember in March or so when the server was down for weeks? We all had to go over to NS 3.5 to staisfy our addiction, do none remember that? It was insane, the Sewer Boots had haste + other properties. You could get those at level 1. And they were crappy boots too! With perma-haste! In addition to that, items could have a million qualities. There was a ring with haste in gnolls if I remember correctly...

[kingfatzo]

hehehehe, yes quite disturbing and mind boggling ...and i am glad that ns4 is still nowhere near that level of insanity

[TheBestDeception]

I thought +8 was the maximum for level 40. Also the -BB- workshop has found that the changes (as I post this) haven't been implemented into the crafting system yet, the upgrade option isn't implemented.

Considering Flailer was asking for people's thoughts on increasing it to +10, I suppose I felt it reasonable to do so.

those r level 40 items. a level one can't use em so what's the problem.

By this reasoning, any uber and unbalanced item is justified so long as it is useable by only level 40s. Sounds kind of flawed to me....

Simply because the item is restricted to lvl 40, that does not mean it is safe from tipping the balance of the server towards certain classes.

As for your "Whats the point of being level 40?" Well, you answer your own question. If your level 40 is having problems with lvl 30's in the current item set, I think you shouldn't be looking towards items for the answer...

Level 40's have AB, AC (tumble), caster level, HP, and save advantages, among others. It makes a huge difference as is.

[Binkyuk]

well as we've established that damage reduction and weapon enchantments can be changed, there's really no reason not to have weapon enchantments go up to +8 or +9 or higher, because we can always fix GMW and premonition later to compete.

the problems that *need* to be considered *now* are when you come up against engine imposed limits, like AC caps and +12 enchantment.

---

For my two pence, stat boosts past +8 (i actually would've said +7, as 5 is the max roll on the normal stat buffs, but we're past that already) are too much, and take a lot away from the buffing classes.

As mgrjebbo says, there are alternatives to higher and higher stat buffs. Give level 40 boots Haste or Freedom 1x/day, or cast level 35 (or even 45?) Earthquake 1x/day. Amulets with +8 regen. Stuff like that.

Disclaimer: Specific examples for illustration only.

[P. Fricebottle]

Why are you guys so fixed on capping items so low? I know the idea of NS4 turning into a NS3.5 is really scary, but its far from it. As already been stated. Besides, who cares if Greater Magic Weapon and Premonition spells become useless in epics. A lot of spells eventually become useless, like Shield of Faith when you get a +5 AC deflection from gear. Or spells like Fireball, although great at pre-epic levels, its not going to lay down the world of hurt once epic.

NS4 is about balance, we'd just be tipping the scales towards mages by capping items. Honestly, we just got done nerfing clerics and mages. Why would we go back, rework the system, just so that some of their spells would no longer become obsolete?

[TheBestDeception]

If you want to know why we think the new items are excessive, try reading what we have actually been saying. The reasons are there.

NS4 is about balance, we'd just be tipping the scales towards mages by capping items. Honestly, we just got done nerfing clerics and mages.

If we just finished nerfing mages and clerics, why do you want to hurt them even more? Do recall: adding the items (not capping the items) is the initiative, as it has not been done yet.

[mgrjebbo]

capping items so low?? go play some actual DnD and tell me when you get a +5 or above weapon.

I like ns because it resembles what the game was meant to be.

[P. Fricebottle]

If you want to know why we think the new items are excessive, try reading what we have actually been saying. The reasons are there.

I tried, and all I got out of it that people were scared NS4 was going to turn into NS3.5.

If we just finished nerfing mages and clerics, why do you want to hurt them even more? Do recall: adding the items (not capping the items) is the initiative, as it has not been done yet.

Hurt them more? GMW has always lost its use in epics, as it should. Its a level 4 spell, not a level 9 spell. It is useful all the way up to level 25. I made Gary a pure cleric, a support cleric, and GMW is the least of his problems. Concerning mages, Premonition doesn't completely lose its use. Sure it gets bypassed often, but it only takes 1 spell slot and is worth it. Besides, if mages want a good DR spell then they should take Epic Warding.

Yeah I know it hasn't been done yet, I'm fine with a +8 cap. They haven't taken it up to +10 so I see no reason to get worked up all about this for 4 pages.

capping items so low?? go play some actual DnD and tell me when you get a +5 or above weapon.

I like ns because it resembles what the game was meant to be.

Well this is NWN, not D&D. Yes, I've played D&D. However, theres a whole world of difference between D&D and NWN. D&D anything can happen, the GM can have a giant finger poke you from the sky for 9999 damage for stealing his mountain dew (its happened). You can think outside of the box, do different things. In NWN, you're limited with an engine. Theres only so much you can do. Theres no way that a computer game can recreate D&D, Bioware did a decent job of doing it but its just impossible because in D&D theres endless posibilities.

If you save up on your gold, you can technically go to the blacksmith and pay for your weapon to be raised. Would take a lot of gold, but if you go on smart about it then it should work.

[mgrjebbo]

well if you can save up enough gold to go by the book when purchasing an enchanted weapon then by that time your high enough level that your God probley bestow a divine gift upon you to the toon of a +4 or 5.

And yes in a game that i would run anything +4 or over would be considered divine in nature.