Shadow Dancer Nerf?

Daltian · Post by **Daltian** » Thu May 06, 2004 3:51 pm

But why ban HIPS? Tell me the way for the rogue to escape the death from mage or cleric without HIPS, and I'll totally agree that it needs to be banned!
And show me a lvl 20 hips rogue duel with lvl 20 wizard and killing him?

In 85% cases wizard will kill the rogue
in 10% cases wizard will just invis, haste, walk away
in 5% cases rogue will win, but that will happen only if wizard used all his spells already, eq rogue cought him resting (every smart wiz will have haste and invis remainig when resting anyway), so this won't actually hapen

btw I am talking about capable wizard against capable rogue fight

then again, hips capable wizard is another story. that is very NASTY combo

Thanos · Post by **Thanos** » Thu May 06, 2004 4:42 pm

If hips can't be fixed/removed then the class should be banned as a last resort. People keep bringing up mages and stuff. Guess what? Mages are already starting to get beat with the nerf bad. A lot of classes need to get beat with the nerf bat too. Your days of hiding with no risk are going to be numbered just like the days of clerics/fighters and mages soloing whole cities.

People seem to forget when a creature has a CR creature rating of 14. It means a party of level 14 charcters should be able to kill it. I am not sure how many players in a party. It could be 4 or 6.
So any class at 8th level soloing 5 level 17 cr giants is insane by DnD standards.

Qui · Post by **Qui** » Thu May 06, 2004 8:03 pm

can we get a dev to comment? or lock this thread? its not going anywhere, we have one group of people (majority) saying keep it, another group (minority) saying get rid of it..

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Thu May 06, 2004 8:12 pm

HIPS POLL - Let the numbers speak.
http://www.nsrealm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=779

Can lock the thread now

Æ · Post by Æ » Thu May 06, 2004 8:43 pm

I like your sig Qui }: )

OK, now that I've spammed, you can lock it lol

I vote for keeping it the same, maybe give HiPS at a later level, but not until they make the other SD abilities useful...... and I don't usually play rogues so it's an unbiased opinion

dond · Post by **dond** » Thu May 06, 2004 8:56 pm

Æ wrote:I like your sig Qui }: )

OK, now that I've spammed, you can lock it lol

I vote for keeping it the same, maybe give HiPS at a later level, but not until they make the other SD abilities useful...... and I don't usually play rogues so it's an unbiased opinion

no, it's an uninformed opinion....

Æ · Post by Æ » Thu May 06, 2004 8:59 pm

Um, no I've played plenty of rogues, and fought against plenty of them, including shadow dancers, just don't usually play one until I already have several characters on a server... it's not my first choice

Obviously you haven't read all my posts on this topic, or my character list on the NS3 server, and are therefore too uninformed to judge my opinion

Dallas17 · Post by **Dallas17** » Thu May 06, 2004 10:43 pm

how many pure fighters are going to survive against that mage? how many pure barbarians are going to survive that mage? how many pure bards are going to survive that mage?

honestly too many people are thinking of rogues as a pure class and i'm sorry to tell you this, but it's not happening. some classes in NWN simply just cannot reach the PAR pure, fighter and rogue are by far the most versitile for multi-classing, they give good results for a commitment of perhaps 4 levels, or 8 levels, or whatever. why not make a fighter rogue that has improved knockdown and sneaks? you stalk the mage till he rests, and gut him good. honestly some classes WILL not compete 1 on 1 head on head combat with the mage, sorry. that's the mages domain. not many will compete with the fighter standing next to him not even hidden. this is the nature of the class system.

rogues are sneaks, sneaks. you pick your time to strike, you've got to be more tactful in how you hunt people. wait for them to sleep, wait for thier spells to run out, wait for them to be busy with a tough monster, then creap up, improved knockdown crippling strike them down and kill them off in 1 round, then run for it

that is how i would play a rogue if i made one. Shadow Dancer without HiPS is basically as useful as a harper scout, they get no sneak attack, they get very little. and since you cannot take HiPS out without banning the class, i see no other option.

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Thu May 06, 2004 10:48 pm

Dear devs, any chance of the screen going totally black during rest periods?

Thanos · Post by **Thanos** » Thu May 06, 2004 10:57 pm

dond wrote:
Thanos wrote:Its refreashing to finally find someone else who wants to do whats best for the mod. The way it is now evey class that can will take 1 level of SD is going to take it. Just like almost every sorc is going to be a sorc with 1 level of paladin.

in ns3, there was the sorc/pally/bg build lol.......not like svs mattered in that mod heh

How about a Sorc/SD/Pally

? Just think

Cast a spell. Hide. Cast a spell. Hide. No one can hit you. Someone casts a AE death spell and you make your save because you have the +10 bonus to save that pally gives you. Cast a spell. Hide. Cast a spell. Hide. No one can hit you again. They cast AE damage spell on you. Of course you make your save again. So you drink a full heal potion. Cast a spell. Hide. Cast a spell. Hide....Times up your dead!

I know its not possible but some people here would be fine with it.

Æ · Post by Æ » Thu May 06, 2004 11:32 pm

it's not possible?

Thanos · Post by **Thanos** » Thu May 06, 2004 11:40 pm

Æ wrote:it's not possible?

I would hope not due to alignment restrictions. I am not positve.

Any class with sd right now is crazy.

If you could make a 20 sorc/1 pally/1 SD it would be insane.

DrakhanValane · Post by **DrakhanValane** » Thu May 06, 2004 11:50 pm

JesterOI wrote:Dear devs, any chance of the screen going totally black during rest periods?

I miss that. I just hope they never put the black during death back in hehe

Sorc/Pally/SD should not be a problem in AO or LA... or RK for that matter.

garrykasparov · Post by **garrykasparov** » Fri May 07, 2004 12:44 am

The tri-class is possible btw, and I've begun making one just to test how overpowered HiPS truely is. Pally is the only one with align restrictions. One weakness to the class is enemy sorcs' IGMS...but make it a drow and you'll find some relief through the SR.

I would also point out that True Sight does not automatically detect hidden chars. Instead it adds +10 to spot, which is nice, but still implies that a character that wants a shot at detecting HiPSters will need to max out spot, as a good HiPSter will most certainly max out hide -- and generally the average schmoe's wis mod is not as good as the shadowdancer's dex mod.

Thanos · Post by **Thanos** » Fri May 07, 2004 1:22 am

Dosen't matter. They just keep hitting the hide button until it works and your re-hidden. If they click fast enough you many never get a chance to hit them.