Just ran through Positive Plane and decided to check out Negative Plane again with the same party. It seems Negative Plane is much more difficult. Not sure if this was intentional (ie evil always wins ect...) but it almost wasn't worth the time spent trying to kill those creatures. The Beholders and the Giants took forever to kill and it was more about waiting for buffs to run out then it was about trying to kill it before then. Just some basic observations so far.
MLoki
*Edit* This was a recent observation... as in since the rework.
Planar Observations
imo i think the bow from the skeleton archers in HOD does not need to drop so much... on a total of 3 trips there i have probally seen about 20 of the bows drop.....
granted it is a nice bow, but..........
other than that great work devs and DMs the new planes r great and a good challenge...
oh yeah that KD attack and the constitution drain from the skull harvesters r mean.... the KD attack was KDing the deaths avatar almost everytime... odd that a lvl 32 skele can KD a lvl 50 skele
be sure to take some restoration pots with ya... i was running around with a constitution of 3 for awhile hahahah
granted it is a nice bow, but..........
other than that great work devs and DMs the new planes r great and a good challenge...
oh yeah that KD attack and the constitution drain from the skull harvesters r mean.... the KD attack was KDing the deaths avatar almost everytime... odd that a lvl 32 skele can KD a lvl 50 skele
be sure to take some restoration pots with ya... i was running around with a constitution of 3 for awhile hahahah
-Slave- Tekkanomica, Subatomik, MegaGnostic, Agorutoxos, Azlyn
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I dont know if we were just extrememly unlucky or what... but negative energy plane dropped absolutely nothing after about 60 kills.
It was very disapointing, i had to spend a few hours killing cr 5 monsters to make up for the lack of reinforcement up there... jk
also... the initial starting point seems to get jumped by multiple groups at the same time, we were never able to fight in the first area without running to the next zone first
If gear does drop, could the archers switch to a scimitar instead of a rapier there is already a cool +6 one
Edit*
For HOD: just use undeath's eternal foe, you will be immune to the stat decrease from the archers, the KD is still annoying especially when you're invis and you get kd'ed next to a few scythe guys. The implosion DC seems pretty high, but it makes for fun battles
It was very disapointing, i had to spend a few hours killing cr 5 monsters to make up for the lack of reinforcement up there... jk
also... the initial starting point seems to get jumped by multiple groups at the same time, we were never able to fight in the first area without running to the next zone first
If gear does drop, could the archers switch to a scimitar instead of a rapier there is already a cool +6 one
Edit*
For HOD: just use undeath's eternal foe, you will be immune to the stat decrease from the archers, the KD is still annoying especially when you're invis and you get kd'ed next to a few scythe guys. The implosion DC seems pretty high, but it makes for fun battles
There's bio-randomness for you--I've seen one drop. Ever.imo i think the bow from the skeleton archers in HOD does not need to drop so much... on a total of 3 trips there i have probally seen about 20 of the bows drop.....
Con of ONE per above. Like I said, glad I had the +8 con belt on....be sure to take some restoration pots with ya... i was running around with a constitution of 3 for awhile hahahah
Doesn't work unless you've got a cleric with you: just use undeath's eternal foe, you will be immune to the stat decrease from the archers
I'm gonna be trading gear for restoration potions.Aye. And there's no save... nothing is more annoying than a crippling anything with no save.the KD is still annoying especially when you're invis
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P. Fricebottle
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I recently went with a very good party to HoD, and I'm pretty sure I can give a good review of the plane. I haven't fought Draco yet, but have killed the Demi-Lich.
Areas
Well designed, my personal favorite is the Sea of Graves. The burial mounds in the Fields of Dead Harvest with corpses sticking out are very sickly sweet. However, in the Sea of Graves theres a few spots on the bridges that you can get stuck in.
Creatures
Winnower of Bones: Well-balanced, no complaints.
Skull Harvester: I bet you're tired of hearing about these guys, but honestly. They are not a CR of 32. They're midget monks with dual kamas. Their SR as a monk is ungodly, as a pure 38 level cleric with Epic Spell Penetration I have yet to pass it. So, they're immune to spells. Also, anti-undead spells have no effect on them. I don't know why, but Mass Heal and other healing spells don't hurt them. Maybe they're just absorbing them, I don't know. Also, their AC is pretty darn high. Their offensive is good two with dual kamas and quick speed to kill stragglers. Could use a +2 or +3 CR increase.
Corpse Reaper: Are very dangerous, sycther. Considering they can take down an entire group with their 250+ crits, I think they could used a +1 or +2 CR increase.
Bleakborn: Nice appearance effects, maybe a +1 to CR considering their enormous strength but they're not too insane.
Skeleton Sentinel: Their bolt attack seems to lack a save or something, because its knocked down a pure monk, me, and a few friends of different builds. Other than that they're fine.
As you can see, these are the creatures on the outer part of HoD. I had a party of a bard, a damage dealer, a cleric (me), and Chubbs (because no party is complete without 'im
). We could cut handle it, the problem isn't ridiculous difficulty like Negative Energy Plane. Its just that the xp is weak. Two of our members are Drow (the Bed Bois) with ECL 3. I had ECL 2, xp was still pretty sorry. We asked Chubbs what he was gettin', it wasn't much better.
Areas
Well designed, my personal favorite is the Sea of Graves. The burial mounds in the Fields of Dead Harvest with corpses sticking out are very sickly sweet. However, in the Sea of Graves theres a few spots on the bridges that you can get stuck in.
Creatures
Winnower of Bones: Well-balanced, no complaints.
Skull Harvester: I bet you're tired of hearing about these guys, but honestly. They are not a CR of 32. They're midget monks with dual kamas. Their SR as a monk is ungodly, as a pure 38 level cleric with Epic Spell Penetration I have yet to pass it. So, they're immune to spells. Also, anti-undead spells have no effect on them. I don't know why, but Mass Heal and other healing spells don't hurt them. Maybe they're just absorbing them, I don't know. Also, their AC is pretty darn high. Their offensive is good two with dual kamas and quick speed to kill stragglers. Could use a +2 or +3 CR increase.
Corpse Reaper: Are very dangerous, sycther. Considering they can take down an entire group with their 250+ crits, I think they could used a +1 or +2 CR increase.
Bleakborn: Nice appearance effects, maybe a +1 to CR considering their enormous strength but they're not too insane.
Skeleton Sentinel: Their bolt attack seems to lack a save or something, because its knocked down a pure monk, me, and a few friends of different builds. Other than that they're fine.
As you can see, these are the creatures on the outer part of HoD. I had a party of a bard, a damage dealer, a cleric (me), and Chubbs (because no party is complete without 'im
). We could cut handle it, the problem isn't ridiculous difficulty like Negative Energy Plane. Its just that the xp is weak. Two of our members are Drow (the Bed Bois) with ECL 3. I had ECL 2, xp was still pretty sorry. We asked Chubbs what he was gettin', it wasn't much better.
I would have to disagree slighty with the Skull Harvesters and Corpse Reapers. Yes they can be dangerous, but the dmg the harvesters put out is easily negated with easy to find 50% slash immunity and 20slash resist. I believe a needed change to them is lower discipline and slightly lower ac. They do not fail discipline checks against an ab of 65 as a dexer. I cannot speak for spell effects for them, though.
The corpse reapers I think are balanced as is. They only have moderate ab/ac and are only dangerous to low AC PCs with their lucky crits and only 3 attacks a round.
On the positive plane (and negative plane for that matter), casters have immense concentration. The beholders, Xag-(somethings?), in both planes are nigh impossible to taunt with 110+concentration. Given their massive AC as well, a cut of 10-20conc would be nice. I havent been to either planes in awhile though, so excuse me if this is dealt with
The corpse reapers I think are balanced as is. They only have moderate ab/ac and are only dangerous to low AC PCs with their lucky crits and only 3 attacks a round.
On the positive plane (and negative plane for that matter), casters have immense concentration. The beholders, Xag-(somethings?), in both planes are nigh impossible to taunt with 110+concentration. Given their massive AC as well, a cut of 10-20conc would be nice. I havent been to either planes in awhile though, so excuse me if this is dealt with
-Slave- [GM]
Psycho Banny and all his forms
Psycho Banny and all his forms
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Mythri Wolfwood
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The anti-undead spells used (Mass heal, heal, undeath to undead, sunbeam, etc.) have SR saves, which means, unless you can lower the SR of the Harvesters, the spells won't work on them.Skull Harvester: I bet you're tired of hearing about these guys, but honestly. They are not a CR of 32. They're midget monks with dual kamas. Their SR as a monk is ungodly, as a pure 38 level cleric with Epic Spell Penetration I have yet to pass it. So, they're immune to spells. Also, anti-undead spells have no effect on them. I don't know why, but Mass Heal and other healing spells don't hurt them. Maybe they're just absorbing them, I don't know.
Would a combo of Nature's Balance + Mordekainen's Disjunction, both cast by a high level druid and mage, respectively, be able to lower the Skull Harvester's SR enough for spells to get through? Both spells do not have an SR save, though Nature's Balance does have a Will save. Perhaps a high level Curse Song could take care of that.
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P. Fricebottle
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Hey, I'm just sayin'. Those little buggers are basically immune to spells, they're super fast, and their AC is pretty darn high. As Banny put it, their offensive isn't too high. However, its high enough to kill your party's mage when they're trying to run away (speed + dual kamas + running away = a ton of crits).
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Mythri Wolfwood
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How high are their will saves? A level 36 druid and level 35 bard can muster up 47-49 DC for Nature's Balance (average of 14 SR reduced). Level 40 druid and bard can muster up 50-52 DC for Nature's Balance (average of 16 SR reduced).
If they aren't immune to KD, a hellball, earthquake spell (42-53 DC depending upon levels of bard and druid and whether Evocation focuses were taken or not) drops their Dodge and possibly DEX AC. A taunter could also drop their AC by up to 6 if their Concentration isn't sky high.
Successful Called Shots and KD attacks could drop their speed by 20% and remove their Dodge AC (possibly DEX AC as well).
Just trying to think up strategies.
*I'm assuming 7-8 WIS feats are taken by the Druid in the DCs mentioned above and that the Druid starts off with 20 WIS.
If they aren't immune to KD, a hellball, earthquake spell (42-53 DC depending upon levels of bard and druid and whether Evocation focuses were taken or not) drops their Dodge and possibly DEX AC. A taunter could also drop their AC by up to 6 if their Concentration isn't sky high.
Successful Called Shots and KD attacks could drop their speed by 20% and remove their Dodge AC (possibly DEX AC as well).
Just trying to think up strategies.
*I'm assuming 7-8 WIS feats are taken by the Druid in the DCs mentioned above and that the Druid starts off with 20 WIS.
Last edited by Mythri Wolfwood on Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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P. Fricebottle
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Meleers get the bonus to hit KDed creatures, Archers receive a penatly to hit KDed creatures.CrazyJ wrote:Hellball KDs everyone in the area for the same period of time, including friendlies... so the dodge/dex ac drop would only be useful to a party that had archers, and even then only for a couple of rounds once per day.