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Death Dealer1 · Post by **Death Dealer1** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 6:20 pm

SL rocks and everyone sucks. we are gonna own the relics for the whole time. oh and yoda...several DD members can take a dragon shape alone...no problems.

P. Fricebottle · Post by **P. Fricebottle** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:55 pm

Spura wrote:Also Melencia is on crap location where you need to walk an eternity to get anywhere, LA has avendel nearby, also black hills ferry, and they have direct ferry to FD. TC has crap, crap location, crappily small population...

I'll get back on topic soon, but I got to clear this up first. Melenceia has a good location actually, I don't find it that hard to get to Melencia from Avendell. Try getting to Avendell from the Mystral Ascendancy, they have to go through either paying for ferries (exspensive for non-cheesers and low-levels) or the hard way. I have a halfling from LA (speed token+barb speed) and it still takes ridiculously long to get to MA from Ave.

Okay back on topic now...

SL is beating tha living crap of everyone. What do they have that every other faction doesnt? Assassin? Lol, does that make a difference (right now anyway) since it hasn't been suped up by devs yet? Its got drow and so does every other faction, the only faction that doesn't is RK (maybe thats why they got 0). I'm just analyzing here. Its got a great defensive setup, no questions there. But it obviously isn't JUST the defense setup, its the Deathdealers. They have organization. If us other factions just organize we could do something. When I was on, LA got murdered by SL. Why? There was 3 defenders (including me) vs. about 4 I reckon. One of us went afk, so me and my other friend got murdered. Respawn, ran after them. Lo and behold, they had gotten one of their own men to stay back (mage) and halt our progress. With so much buffs he was like a statue blocking our path (2k dr). I'd say there was 6 total involved in their raid. Its all about organization and strategy.

Go'f · Post by **Go'f** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:14 pm

P. Fricebottle wrote:SL is beating tha living crap of everyone. What do they have that every other faction doesnt? Assassin? Lol, does that make a difference (right now anyway) since it hasn't been suped up by devs yet? Its got drow and so does every other faction, the only faction that doesn't is RK (maybe thats why they got 0). I'm just analyzing here. Its got a great defensive setup, no questions there. But it obviously isn't JUST the defense setup, its the Deathdealers. They have organization.

Drow ECL make cooperation a must for new players the active guilds make it easy... SL is very well organised !

Spura · Post by **Spura** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:54 am

MasterYoda wrote:^^^^^ lol dragon shape owns and i would gladly fight you 1v1 with a level 40 dragon shap vs you as anything .....

Dragon shape + buffs+ KD+ greater ruin + hellball = you loose......

Sounds like you need better builds, death dealer is right.

Spura · Post by **Spura** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:56 am

P. Fricebottle wrote:Okay back on topic now...SL is beating tha living crap of everyone. What do they have that every other faction doesnt? Assassin? Lol, does that make a difference (right now anyway) since it hasn't been suped up by devs yet? Its got drow and so does every other faction, the only faction that doesn't is RK (maybe thats why they got 0). I'm just analyzing here. Its got a great defensive setup, no questions there. But it obviously isn't JUST the defense setup, its the Deathdealers. They have organization. If us other factions just organize we could do something. When I was on, LA got murdered by SL. Why? There was 3 defenders (including me) vs. about 4 I reckon. One of us went afk, so me and my other friend got murdered. Respawn, ran after them. Lo and behold, they had gotten one of their own men to stay back (mage) and halt our progress. With so much buffs he was like a statue blocking our path (2k dr). I'd say there was 6 total involved in their raid. Its all about organization and strategy.

If you compare SL to TC and NC you see another difference. They have mages. Mages are very powerful in this module, and cleric and druid dispells can't touch casters with more than 25 caster levels.

Aarkon Draco · Post by **Aarkon Draco** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:12 am

i think the drow sr has a bit to do with it also unleass your a monk or a drow also the best sr you can get is 22 (i think). so you add their sr to the fact they organize well and boom you got a squad of drow that 1/3 of the time spells wont do anything to not to menton all the drow fanboys ( no offense) so they have a good number of guys on at all times

Nemesis Revised · Post by **Nemesis Revised** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 11:37 am

i would agree on the organization part. part of being DD is the fact that when we were lowbies we had to use alot of darkness with UV sharing techniques. whenever one person had gone out, another had to put his one up. takes alot of discipline and patience to level a drow. i currently have a 23 drow wiz. frigging hard to level even if you can wail and finger moderately

Celorn · Post by **Celorn** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 4:55 pm

Spura wrote:If you compare SL to TC and NC you see another difference. They have mages. Mages are very powerful in this module, and cleric and druid dispells can't touch casters with more than 25 caster levels.

well, actually that's not quite true ... if you know what you're doing.

Aarkon Draco wrote:i think the drow sr has a bit to do with it also unleass your a monk or a drow also the best sr you can get is 22 (i think). so you add their sr to the fact they organize well and boom you got a squad of drow that 1/3 of the time spells wont do anything to not to menton all the drow fanboys ( no offense) so they have a good number of guys on at all times

Yeah, think the best robe has SR22 on it, but with enough caster levels, druids and clerics can get up to 52 sr with the spell resistance spell, and mages can get +8 to resist spells for themselves and any allies near them when cast, not sure if that stacks above the spellcraft bonus..

P. Fricebottle wrote:I'll get back on topic soon, but I got to clear this up first. Melenceia has a good location actually, I don't find it that hard to get to Melencia from Avendell. Try getting to Avendell from the Mystral Ascendancy, they have to go through either paying for ferries (exspensive for non-cheesers and low-levels) or the hard way. I have a halfling from LA (speed token+barb speed) and it still takes ridiculously long to get to MA from Ave

Well with the dragonflight now, it takes like 1 minute to get from AV to Garagoth ;] - actually, if -DD- had been smart, they would have stayed in MA and not cryed about it being so far away - once they got all the relics TO MA, then it would have been quite a pain to get them back-- since the golem guards have true seeing, and the MA NPCs have dispells and wails!

P. Fricebottle wrote:SL is beating tha living crap of everyone. What do they have that every other faction doesnt? Assassin? Lol, does that make a difference (right now anyway) since it hasn't been suped up by devs yet? Its got drow and so does every other faction, the only faction that doesn't is RK (maybe thats why they got 0). I'm just analyzing here. Its got a great defensive setup, no questions there. But it obviously isn't JUST the defense setup, its the Deathdealers. They have organization. If us other factions just organize we could do something. When I was on, LA got murdered by SL. Why?

Actually, the reason is some of the best builders and PvP/players in NS4 have made SL their home, and most have joined -DD-, and a lot of them are on ns4 for extended periods of time - all of these factors add up to pwnage. Whenever the Brethren have their best on, we have been able to attack SL and take relics and defend them, the problems happen when we are split into 2 parties and lose the synergy of a calculated strike.

Death Dealer1 · Post by **Death Dealer1** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:31 pm

the reason DD seems so much better than everyone else is that we are a selective group. all the players that comprise our guild are known for ruthless PvP...chances are if you were moved to make a better char its because one of those guys killed you many times.

so everyone knows..we didn't move becuase MA was too far away. we moved becuase this guild would have died if left there. when we first came to NS4 SL was our home. in an oversight in choosing we needed to be reminded of that.

Spura · Post by **Spura** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:20 am

Celorn wrote:
Spura wrote:If you compare SL to TC and NC you see another difference. They have mages. Mages are very powerful in this module, and cleric and druid dispells can't touch casters with more than 25 caster levels.
well, actually that's not quite true ... if you know what you're doing.

WHAT??
Dispell check for greater dispel is 1d20 + caster level(max 15) vs 11+caster level of target.
So at best you are gonna roll 20+15 = 35 and someone with 25 caster levels has DC of 11+25 = 36. What do you mean if you know what you are doing?? Even if they made spell focus abjuration add +2 bonus(and epic +6) that just mean you can't dispel lvl 31 caster instead of 25. Anyway you turn it, druid or cleric can't dispell high level mage. 0% chance.

Celorn wrote:
Aarkon Draco wrote:i think the drow sr has a bit to do with it also unleass your a monk or a drow also the best sr you can get is 22 (i think). so you add their sr to the fact they organize well and boom you got a squad of drow that 1/3 of the time spells wont do anything to not to menton all the drow fanboys ( no offense) so they have a good number of guys on at all times
Yeah, think the best robe has SR22 on it, but with enough caster levels, druids and clerics can get up to 52 sr with the spell resistance spell, and mages can get +8 to resist spells for themselves and any allies near them when cast, not sure if that stacks above the spellcraft bonus..

Protection vs spells that mages have adds +8 to saves vs spells not SR, same goes for spellcraft bonus.

lordvan52681 · Post by **lordvan52681** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:30 am

Spura wrote:
Celorn wrote:
Spura wrote:If you compare SL to TC and NC you see another difference. They have mages. Mages are very powerful in this module, and cleric and druid dispells can't touch casters with more than 25 caster levels.
well, actually that's not quite true ... if you know what you're doing.
WHAT??
Dispell check for greater dispel is 1d20 + caster level(max 15) vs 11+caster level of target.
So at best you are gonna roll 20+15 = 35 and someone with 25 caster levels has DC of 11+25 = 36. What do you mean if you know what you are doing?? Even if they made spell focus abjuration add +2 bonus(and epic +6) that just mean you can't dispel lvl 31 caster instead of 25. Anyway you turn it, druid or cleric can't dispell high level mage. 0% chance.

You are mistaken my shifter loving friend. The max added to a dispell check on NS4 is +20 not +15. This makes it so that if you build your character correctly, you can dispell up to lvl 36 casters. And since I can count the number of lvl 36+ casters in NS4 on one hand, this can be very handy.

Spura wrote:
Celorn wrote:
Aarkon Draco wrote:i think the drow sr has a bit to do with it also unleass your a monk or a drow also the best sr you can get is 22 (i think). so you add their sr to the fact they organize well and boom you got a squad of drow that 1/3 of the time spells wont do anything to not to menton all the drow fanboys ( no offense) so they have a good number of guys on at all times
Yeah, think the best robe has SR22 on it, but with enough caster levels, druids and clerics can get up to 52 sr with the spell resistance spell, and mages can get +8 to resist spells for themselves and any allies near them when cast, not sure if that stacks above the spellcraft bonus..
Protection vs spells that mages have adds +8 to saves vs spells not SR, same goes for spellcraft bonus.

I think that he meant the +8 is added onto the SR roll, not the SR itself. Since I cant see the SR rolls, I dont know if this is true or not.

Zaranthys Rivermoon · Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:13 am

Zing wrote:Or maybe it's because the sorcerers are soft bed-wetting types, the dwarves are too drunk and the hippies too stoned to care.

Still kind of incredible for Factions which have guilds.

Reproducing a previous post I made on this subject:

Zaranthys Rivermoon wrote:I will too give my perspective as a player on the relics ...

As much as I do like to rp the pride in faction and respect for the Gods of your faction, I found myself quickly losing interest in the relics ... for the simple reason that it is a perpetual game of capture the flag. Even when we (or one of us) manage to recapture our own relic, along maybe with a couple of others if the situation lends itself, then it is inevitable that either A) the relic(s) get stolen again while you are away with other toons (or the same ones you used to capture the relics) to adventure, and/or B) the relic(s) get stolen again while you are off line (i.e. while sleeping, eating, working, living RL in general).

That is why as a player I have lost quickly interest in the relics and can't even bring myself to rp this anymore ... but this is just me, mind you

In any case, I am glad that the relics are not the focus of NS4 ... and to those who hold the relics as a priority, then more power to you and I sincerely wish you to have fun.

Holghask · Post by **Holghask** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:17 am

Yeah, but even being able to dispell other casters up to 35th lev in theory doesn't result in reality...

I've used 7 greater dispells on a 28th lev mage before who had 12 buffs up with my 35th lev cleric. I rolled to dispell 12*7=84 times! Needed a 20 to dispell anything (don't have abjuration focus)...not once did I roll a 20. Meanwhile that mage mord'd me once to lower my SR then started with the Bigbies spam...Incidentally, the odds of not once rolling a 20 in 84 tries = (19/20^84) = 1.35% !!!!!!!!

A 35th lev caster cleric having a hell of a time dispelling anything on a mage 7 levels lower is tough.

Post by **LinuxPup** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:31 pm

I should note that the +20 limit on mord. disjunction was removed a while back... I think in nwn 1.66... so even lvl 40 buffs can be dispelled if the caster is high enough... So unless the NS4 developers nerfed it, its really powerful.

However its very hard to get a caster high enough to strip a high lvl cleric/druid's buffs. And one of the greatest things about the SR spell is you can cast it on anyone.

Cyrix · Post by **Cyrix** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:15 pm

Man I remeber when everyone was crying that Sleeth was overpowering, but look at the scoreboard now. Both Shadow Legion and Last Alliance have like 60 points a piece.

Sirus=kSt=