Bigsy spells

[rocketkai]

I am also amazed by ppl trying to compare new bigby 6 with the maxed igms with one as the 6th lvl spell and one as the 9th lvl spell.. If you take a look at the regular igms, it only deals 90 damage on average and not to mention the negative effects like push-back and kd that bigby provides.. Some ppl argue that the damage of bigby can be resisted, although as mentioned by Rufio that 25% immunity/20- is a more reasonable resistance number that ppl bring to pvp. But dont forget that bigby 6 just ignores SR without any spell save checks, which is a huge advantage as compared to igms. Ppl used to build SR monks (a.k.a mage killer) by taking 8+ epic feats of improved spell resistance just aiming to counter that single spell and now those builds are totally nullified by mages, which is so wrong...

Snookz, we know that bigby does bludgeoning damage, this is common knowledge, but how often does anyone wear 50% bludgeoning immunity in pvp? Pretty much never. 25% immunity and 20/- is a more reasonable assumption, and in that case it would have hit for 115 damage, which is still a lot.

The FoM thing with bigby 7 is moot since a mage has mords. Even if you have FoM, it is going to take a round or two to react and cast the spell, and at that point you have already been pulled and slowed long enough to get blasted by a few igms or pounded by the mage's buddies.

Most of us play mages even though we don't primarily play in a faction with mages, so we know how to play a mage.

The nerf that mining just put in is pretty tame really. Bigby 6 still pushes back at the same attack bonus, and the damage is still good. The only change to bigby 7 is that the d20 rolls now have a little more influence on the success or failure of the spell. They are still incredibly useful.

[rocketkai]

It's about 100 damage per round (no quicken thing for it), so you should get your fact straight before you want to argue for something. 80% of my builds would deal more damages than that in a single round under most of circumstances. I used to fire stream dex-based PM using my shifter, just because they have godly untouchable high AC. But with the trend that ppl are building more and more con or str based PM, I found that I would rather to fight those PMs with my construct shape (I can deal much more damage in a round). The only useful situation that I will use azer shape is against non-monk type of high AC toons (I am starting to think that how many of such kind of toons existing besides dex-based PM?), while mages can do twice or even triple better than azer shape. For the monk-type high AC toons especially with 50% concealment, azer shape will just miss more than 50% of his fire attacks.

fire beam from shifter bypass epic dodge, concealment and use range attack dice...make 120 average damages and no saves...

[mining]

Also consider that IGMS can be neutered by shield or AM robes - bigby has no such hard counter.

Matter of fact was, mathematically bigby was ludicrously strong. So I toned down a few things by a few percent - nothing outrageous like a remake.

The reason why I made the KD a check vs discipline was to make it more useful against pure X and dex builds while reducing the stupidity of a mage killing any build via bigby for positioning and direct damage spells for damage - double bludge just meant, hey, let's hit him with Fire Brand or whatever.

[Korr]

Bigby changes seem much more reasonable... a way to resist the knockback is awesome alone!

[Eldaquen]

First off I didn't complain just merely stated I did not understand the concept applied that dev's saw druids as being good at crowd control but druid spells which had a crowd control element were nerffed to the point of not controlling crowds. Yet mages were given a boast that was very effective at crowd control.

As far as druids being used more than DwD's perhaps shifters but then their not really druids: they are shifters. I can't recall seeing a casting druid being used in pvp, but do recall seeing DwD in pvp and especially in high lvl pvm. 5 lvls of druid isnt really a druid no more than 1 to 9 lvls of mage to qualify for RDD makes the build a mage.

TC was a faction by realm story to have been created by druids for druids. Yet the class that does not get used in pvp are druids (excluding shape builds).

Pretty sure I've seen most non-prestige builds with a DMz tag, except a casting druid. Wonder why that is?

[Lokey]

No, the devs said druid is a great class when it isn't always used as an offensive caster with the same spell loadout for all situations. Druid is just too good for DMz use, that's why we don't use them.

[Amoenotep]

we have standards...which is why alot of DMz are Hogres...because if we can kill you with a Hogre sorc then you deserve to be ridiculed.

[Eldaquen]

Earlier in this thread an average for the amount of damage pre-change bigby's dealt (40d8) was given to be around 180. Post change I was curious as to what the average in game might be (using the d6). My mage (yes I have one) was only level 38 (so damage was 38d6 (a range of 38 to 228 excluding crits)). After 204 casts of level 6 bigsbies I dealt on average 178.79 of damage. My lowest damage output was 137, and highest was 372. I used the total amount of damage stated in combat log to arrive at the average seen in game, which was the amount dealt plus the amount that was absorbed by immunities and resistences.

So using my in game experience; on average a level 38 pure mage can hope to do around 179 points of bldg damage. As long as I alternated targets between casts I was able to hit a specific target every other cast. So a target without bldg gear would receive all on average 179, if wore 25%/20 gear then would receive on average 114.25, and if wore 50%/20 then on average 69.50. Since pvp is usually a group affair and not 1 vs 1, chances are players on the receiving end of bigby's will be wearing more pierce gear than bldg.

Bigby's damage from level 6 bigby's is still rather high.

[Snookz Eaglin]

If the new changes have been added yet and are implemented correctly, a lvl 38 caster should deal 3,5 * 38 = 133 avg damage.

[Korr]

In back and forth PvP with a few mages bigby will probably get cast more than 200 times. Not to say your tests are innaccurate just not complete.

Average damage of a d6 is 3.

40d6 = 40 * 3 = 120 average damage for new bigby.

The thing with averages is it takes ALOT of calculations to actually get to the average. One of these more practiced staticians can explain it if they want.

So after 25% you get 90 damage, then after 20/- its 70 average damage.
70 is much more realistic for a 6th level spell than before, especially now that its not 50% guarunteed knockback (half a screen).

[Eldaquen]

Not what occuring in game by game engine.

[Eldaquen]

Rolls are not actually rolls but pre-determined list of numbers that scroll through and recycle, if engine was explained to me correctly.

[Snookz Eaglin]

Average damage of a d6 is 3.

(1+2+3+4+5+6) / 6 = 3,5

[BlkMamba]

Dis check i think is great, useing the mages ab for the check made me laugh and still does
Damage wise my 35 caster is doin around 110 to 120 on avg, which is about right down from 140-150 on avg
this nerf i actually agree with for the most part, still mage ab wont kd a thing, which might be the point
and if it is, go be it
Mages will still do good, just more running around to stay alive

[Rufio]

Average damage of a d6 is 3.

40d6 = 40 * 3 = 120 average damage for new bigby.

The average roll of a d6 is 3.5 as snookz pointed out, so the average total is 140 damage. Because bigby spells do double damage on natural 20's, the true average is a bit higher. 147 damage if it hits every time to be exact.