Defending relics with non-allied toons

[Amoenotep]

ghost and i made 125 hide hipsers out of ao....then we raided there and got called cheaters

[Rufio]

Between AO an RK, you all can build almost anything. You have access to every race and class. The only thing that you all can't build are sd's, paladins and wizards with the AO races, but they can be built with rk races. It's practically LA with prestige classes.

Seriously, you all have way more options than the other two alliances and you want more?

[Ryddwillow]

ghost and i made 125 hide hipsers out of ao....then we raided there and got called cheaters

So these toons were rogues only right?

[cRaZy8or5e]

Defending and raiding with non allied toons is not against the rules.
And it will be done untill rk and ao get something good to work with, like a 127 hide hipser.
Unless you want us all to leave, just say it here and now. 90% of players already left.
This place is dying.

Thanks for making me laugh, I snorted coffee in my nose, good coffee that was sent me from half the world away . . . do you know how hard it is to find good coffee where I'm at right now? Well do you?!?!?! I demand compensation! (jk)

[Ogami]

those were probably LA toons. Ao has no sd, Rk smurf sd has 14 less hide than a ghostwise halfling made out of the other factions.
10 from subrace and 4 from jobs. Even if the amount was half its a pretty damn high difference. Rk can build a 120-121 hider with a very difficult wokr on it. But that is quite spottable. Only 127 puts you into a sort of ethereal mode. And takes many players to kill one.
Every day replying ao and rk are the best when they aren't? Put some real argument. You are just saying "no you are wrong" without even reading what i post. I was talking about sd.
I know you guys still hate LA players, thats how this server works, and this explains posts trolling. Not really friendly community, and sadly this trend comes from above. And nothing has ever been done to revert it. People are playing elsewhere because of crybabies always ready to say NO to anything to balance pvp.
Just look at AO cradle room, you can sit there in darkness or invisible and no one sees you. When LA players were against AO, AO guards had bioware true seeing.
For you the old LA players gotta stay in the rk/ao purgatory, both factions with the less choice of races. Removing sd, earth gen cleric, dwarf, gnome, from ao makes it a lot worse than NC and tc. RK has only 2 races! Not even halfling to work out some decent sds.
Rk prestige class can't be even compared to palemaster. A palemaster cleric can run around with 75-85 ie ac, epic warding and crit immunity, while a cleric dwd has 50 ac and just some dr. Palemaster also gets a bonus to the dispell dc while rdd and dwd don't.
Shifter is the best for raiding / party farming. Add one high ab high ac crit immune, neg burst immune, high str with +8 dr , spot, 50% free immunity to bludge and 60 regen into a party with of 125 -127 hide sds and stunfisters. What are you gonna do in ao? Log your spotter? And get killed by stunfisters and shifter? log your mage and get killed by sd? You talk and talk without having tried to defend ao, often attacked by every faction, ma / sl from frostdale and tc/nc from melencia. And this is quite in topic now.
And even if you want to try AO now you can't. Denied. Faction is dead and no one plays it. If AO players had the defender of the relic statue once. And once in RK. Without nothing but fighters and gnome mages. This is skill. I tried all factions. I talk about something I know for sure. Do you know what are you talking about? Are you sure rk paladins are as good as LA paladins or NC's? Do you see many around? Do you think people are stupid or noobs to not build good? No you don't. You just gotta keep your standing against ex LA players. We laughed about the chugger post. But now we left. Its getting old. I'm sure you want last word and will reply with something that quite sounds like the previous post.

[cRaZy8or5e]

teamwork ftw!

*edit* yes that has multiple meanings in this context

[Tsavong]

ghost and i made 125 hide hipsers out of ao....

those were probably LA toons. Ao has no sd...

They were probably Rangers which get hips in outdoor wilderness and they probably used that or corner sneaked.

[Alkapwn]

Awww zerg you gave it away. I was hoping for some more absurd posts from the peanut gallery


I think Ogami is channeling Blkmamba lol

[Tsavong]

Ogami are you trying to make a point with this screen shot of my Banshee and a white box in the Garagoth clothing shop?
http://i.imgur.com/noet3.jpg

[mining]

those were probably LA toons. Ao has no sd, Rk smurf sd has 14 less hide than a ghostwise halfling made out of the other factions.
10 from subrace and 4 from jobs. Even if the amount was half its a pretty damn high difference. Rk can build a 120-121 hider with a very difficult wokr on it. But that is quite spottable. Only 127 puts you into a sort of ethereal mode. And takes many players to kill one.
Every day replying ao and rk are the best when they aren't? Put some real argument. You are just saying "no you are wrong" without even reading what i post. I was talking about sd.
I know you guys still hate LA players, thats how this server works, and this explains posts trolling. Not really friendly community, and sadly this trend comes from above. And nothing has ever been done to revert it. People are playing elsewhere because of crybabies always ready to say NO to anything to balance pvp.
Just look at AO cradle room, you can sit there in darkness or invisible and no one sees you. When LA players were against AO, AO guards had bioware true seeing.
For you the old LA players gotta stay in the rk/ao purgatory, both factions with the less choice of races. Removing sd, earth gen cleric, dwarf, gnome, from ao makes it a lot worse than NC and tc. RK has only 2 races! Not even halfling to work out some decent sds.
Rk prestige class can't be even compared to palemaster. A palemaster cleric can run around with 75-85 ie ac, epic warding and crit immunity, while a cleric dwd has 50 ac and just some dr. Palemaster also gets a bonus to the dispell dc while rdd and dwd don't.
Shifter is the best for raiding / party farming. Add one high ab high ac crit immune, neg burst immune, high str with +8 dr , spot, 50% free immunity to bludge and 60 regen into a party with of 125 -127 hide sds and stunfisters. What are you gonna do in ao? Log your spotter? And get killed by stunfisters and shifter? log your mage and get killed by sd? You talk and talk without having tried to defend ao, often attacked by every faction, ma / sl from frostdale and tc/nc from melencia. And this is quite in topic now.
And even if you want to try AO now you can't. Denied. Faction is dead and no one plays it. If AO players had the defender of the relic statue once. And once in RK. Without nothing but fighters and gnome mages. This is skill. I tried all factions. I talk about something I know for sure. Do you know what are you talking about? Are you sure rk paladins are as good as LA paladins or NC's? Do you see many around? Do you think people are stupid or noobs to not build good? No you don't. You just gotta keep your standing against ex LA players. We laughed about the chugger post. But now we left. Its getting old. I'm sure you want last word and will reply with something that quite sounds like the previous post.

Firstly, who do you play? I'd like to refer to your toons as examples, but can't, which is a shame. If, for example, you played Valgan of Moradin I could say "There's using your faction to your advantage". If on the other hand, you played 3 pure fighters and a pure mage, I'd have to say "Ok, cool. Play out of anywhere and be the same".
Secondly: Anything you could want to use a dwarf/Gnome for in AO, you can't do the same in RK? Apart from RDD and... RDD, you can, I think.
Thirdly: See below, rangers definitely.
Fourth: SDs out of RK are probably never going to outclass SDs from other factions. I don't see anyone expecting a TC barbarian to outmatch a SL one with githyanki, for example. Factions don't get everything - stop examining your weaknesses, start playing to your strengths.
Some examples which, as far as I'm aware, you could build (more or less) out of AO or RK:
Imploder cleric.
Ranger/Rogue/HS
Raijinesque build
Diegoesque build
Every bard ever except SD bards and PM bards, terms and conditions apply
Cleric/Monk melee style builds, i.e. Mind Virus and Dagr.

I think what a lot of this discussion boils down to is: Stop complaining, build better.

[Rufio]

Rk prestige class can't be even compared to palemaster. A palemaster cleric can run around with 75-85 ie ac, epic warding and crit immunity, while a cleric dwd has 50 ac and just some dr. Palemaster also gets a bonus to the dispell dc while rdd and dwd don't.

RDD clerics make great battle clerics which statistically blow other battle clerics out of the water when you build with divine shield. AC will be better than PM clerics with divine shield up, and you will have far more ab. The only weakness is dispel reistance. Any pm cleric with epic warding has no more than 19 or 20 cleric levels, and they are tight on feats, so fitting anything like IE, divine feats, or save feats require sacrifices. Despite the added dispel resist from cleric levels, these are easy dispel bait. DWD clerics make great tanks and can be just as stout as any pm cleric, and it can have healing domain for massive healing. Who says your dwd cleric has to have 50 ac? make it a dexer and you can get 70 or so ac, put divine shield on it and get it close to 80. Nothing about dwds force you to make them str based.

Look outside of your prestige classes for cleric builds too. My favorite battle cleric build that I am playing is Mind Virus. He has 63 ab and 80 ac using a talisid's flail and can't be dispelled without abjuration focuses. He can only be built in NC and AO as is, or TC with different domains. I doubt you have the +4 books for mind virus, but Dagr in TC is my +2 book version that is statistically similar (63 ab, 78 ac), just with slightly fewer cleric levels.

Shifter is the best for raiding / party farming. Add one high ab high ac crit immune, neg burst immune, high str with +8 dr , spot, 50% free immunity to bludge and 60 regen into a party with of 125 -127 hide sds and stunfisters. What are you gonna do in ao? Log your spotter? And get killed by stunfisters and shifter? log your mage and get killed by sd? You talk and talk without having tried to defend ao, often attacked by every faction, ma / sl from frostdale and tc/nc from melencia. And this is quite in topic now.

Constucts actually have low to average ac, they can't get more than 65 ac, or 69 if they are gith (though i have never seen a gith construct), and the Dr was nerfed to +7 dr. They are good damage reduction tanks, but that is all they do, they are like 30 dwds with a lot less dr, hp, and no access to spells or items, but crit immunites and slow healing. The same complaints you made about RDD dragons apply here about not being able to use items or use special abilites, they just can't do anything well besides being damage sponges. Stunners can be built in AO and RK just fine. You all can do most any stunners the other factions use other than CoT stunners. You don't need ghostwise for hipsers when you are with a party. Any hipser can really disrupt things, since most builds can't spot. Hell, I have a ranger with 60 hide that absolutely tears people up when he gets outdoors because I built him to be a handful regardless of if you can see him or not, and SD wizards are some of the scariest sd types if you don't have a spotter with a good ranged attack on your side, and most of those don't have much more than 100 hide or so. Look at a similar team you could put together in RK, deep gnome stunning fist pure fighter, deep gnome wiz sd spotter, and 30 DWD or DWD a cleric. This sounds on par or better than the TC team you proposed.

And even if you want to try AO now you can't. Denied. Faction is dead and no one plays it. If AO players had the defender of the relic statue once. And once in RK. Without nothing but fighters and gnome mages. This is skill. I tried all factions. I talk about something I know for sure. Do you know what are you talking about? Are you sure rk paladins are as good as LA paladins or NC's? Do you see many around? Do you think people are stupid or noobs to not build good? No you don't. You just gotta keep your standing against ex LA players. We laughed about the chugger post. But now we left. Its getting old. I'm sure you want last word and will reply with something that quite sounds like the previous post.

I don't remember MA or SL having the statue, but I only started playing when the last wipe happened. Seems like AO and RK are doing fine there. AO was the most populated faction on the server for a very long time. They could take on all the other factions combined practically, but they also pissed a lot of people off. It left a sour taste in people's mouths, and I don't think that the stigma of being an AO player is gone yet. It has certainly improved, but complaining on the forums isn't helping. At this point, a lot of people didn't even play when LA was around (I didn't, i can't possibly hold a grudge against LA, and I have no idea who old LA players are) and even if they did, most people have forgotten about LA. It never comes up in conversation.

look, here is the problem. of course RK paladins aren't quite as good as NC or LA paladins, but you are focusing on what you don't have, not what you do have. Rk is now the only other faction outside of NC that can build paladins, and they can be built as lore keeper dwarfs, regular gnomes, and tinker gnomes with only a small sacrifice in final ab and ac. you can even build them with races with cha penalties. i have an earth genasi cleric pdk bard with divine feats and though it isn't 40 yet, it still works just how I wanted it to. Having 1 less ab and 1 less ac isn't going to be a deciding factor in 95% of fights. I get the impression that RK players just think "oh we have paladins, but not the best paladin races, what's the point of even building them?", but instead the thought should be "we are the only faction outside of NC to get pladins AND we have more classes to back them up with, lets see what we can do." For example: RK is the only faction that can do a paladin/rogue/wm with epic dodge. That is a pretty cool build, and I know it is possible, because I posted a build for one on the TC/NC forums almost a year ago.

[OpalimTeGolim]

Why do you need hipsers with 127 hide to raid when we:
a) have spotters with higher spot
b) have hellballers
c) have pure fighters and can hit f8 really fast (anyone in MADD should know what I'm talking about)
d) have pure barbs and can roar
e) have ice storm spammers
f) have bards and wailers (yup, this combo can also work)
g) have bards and imploders

As others can see (coz I am not sure if you do), there are bunch of ways to counter hipser. In the end it will depend a lot on skill level and internet speed of a player... and ofc teamwork. If you think you need 127 hide hipser to be successful you have already lost. You have much better build options in rk/ao to fight both ma/sl and tc/nc, and it is really sad that you don't use them.

P.S.
Thank you for building toons that do poorly vs PMs.

[Bargeld]

AORK are still the only other spellcasters and bigser's on the server for SL/MA to fight against.

I got really mad at a group of 3 CoTs legitimately from NC like a year or so ago. I went on a rant that ended up with me just stuttering about some sort of 'mage army' to annihilate those pesky things. Now I have that army with all different types of casters and PM cohorts. Pretty much every guilded player in SL/MA has at least 2, maybe even 3, arcane casters at 40. Some have been nerfed, some just suck, but there's some seriously good stuff in there too.

I know that a lot of out-of-faction builds come from people seeing an OP ability and recreating/improving it to prove the point that a certain thing might need looking at. It's a natural circle that happens as players build better, the extreme stuff sometimes requires trimming. It's sad tho when that test character becomes a staple in ALL of your raids. That's not the purpose nor the spirit of the game, and it becomes trolling after a while.

AORK is on the low side of population for whatever reason. Make a presence with your guild, define your hierarchy/leadership/whatever, then play in groups and find some decent new players. This is definately a team play server and your fun level is down with your populations, so fix that.

[Amoenotep]

they were ranger/rogue corner/wilderness sneakers. i even used mine to run around some of the mod to figure out what areas were supposed to be wilderness but for some reason weren't.

it was funny when ghostly shouted at an rdd dragon to get out of his way so he could leave the ao temple

[BlkMamba]

i remember my kid saying something about that
couldnt help but laugh driving down the road
i think it was her in his way actually