Power Leveling, Forced Spawning

[Gornickthy]

First of all there is not a dang thing any DM can do about the crashes or any tech stuff. Except do some testing when the Dev's ask us to and report tech issues as they come up that players inform us about. Our priorities as DM's are the rules. Are the player on player politics in all it's forms. Are running various events from time to time. Are explaining to players that we can not give back lost levels or items due to a crash and remind them to log save. Are getting stuck players out of the planar store or out from walls when all else fails until the dev's have time to find the fix for those problems.. DM's very much have their priorities straight and so do the Devs.

Yes I stand corrected and you are right. Nerfing a faction's prc, creating new races, creating more pure class builds and bonuses, and all that other stuff is way far more important than known bugs that effect the entire server. If people are deleveled back to level 1 because of a shifter crash, then you are right.. it is their fault to begin with and deserve no special assistance from anyone. If people die upon transition, again their problem and no one else's concern. What ever was I thinking???

Personally, I was thinking of others and trying to argue on their behalf, but in truth I really don't care myself because I will simply dual log and save myself any grief from those bugs. So game on and more power to the "priorities."

[DM_Kim]

I guess there is no amount of explanation that can be given to some fine folks to have them understand what the words "Use Common Sense" means.

[Gornickthy]

I think my arguments are completely off topic for this thread, but hey.. I always hijack threads like that so I guess it is to be expected. The bottom line is that there are two major bugs with little to no explanation or attention being directed to them. Well, the crashing bug is known and we know it has been an issue and has been looked at for some time, but the transition death issue is another problem which does not receive enough attention or feedback.

Back in the day when I fought tooth and nail about the HiPSer spam issue I was ignored and flamed by the DMs until someone finally stepped forth and said the issue was hard coded. It was a simple answer to a simple problem. Once that came to light then other ways of dealing with the HiPS spam issue came forth. So yes, I do believe in bringing issues forth, and then when DMs start to side wind around the issues I like to keep the topic alive until a reasonable solution is either provided or explained.

So here we are...
1. Shifter crashes (the word shifter for the sake of argument) - ok, yes we know it is being looked at, but is it really the person's fault that looses everything because of someone else's negligence?
2. Transition deaths - What, if anything, is being done with this issue that has been going on for a VERY long time?

As far as power leveling and the rest of the subject matter... get it, got it, and don't care. I will do whatever is mandated by the DMs and rules as always.

[Benjamin Linus]

I guess there is no amount of explanation that can be given to some fine folks to have them understand what the words "Use Common Sense" means.

If one person thinks one thing, but a bunch of people think another thing, who's "sense" is really the most "common"?

And if they buff each other, do they lose xp or get banned?

[Amoenotep]

Gorn..i'd like the name of the shifter/druid/mage/ranger or whatever it was that caused you xp loss. i haven't seen a "shifter" crash in a few weeks....although the POLYMORPH line of spells that most other classes still get weren't changed in the shifter change. those still might be happening, which would denote a lowbie got smacked down.

Transition death will probably never be looked at...it has to do with you being in the neg hp, healing, then running through a transition and the db not reading you as being alive again. the best...BEST...and most reliable way around this is to rest in the zone before you transition...after that...good luck.



to the rest of you hop heads that obviously can't read subtly.

THIS WAS AND IS NOT A RULE...IT WAS A DM TELLING YOU THAT IT IS FROWNED UPON TO MASSIVELY POWER LEVEL YOUR LOWBIE IN AREAS THAT IT CAN NOT SURVIVE.

take that lvl 6 to gnolls...we'll test it to see if it lives on its own..
take that lvl 7 on the bloodrinkers...i'll check to see if that babysitter is the only thing keeping you alive.

does anyone understand it at this point...we constantly see if you actually someplace that your char has any type of chance in that area...prove us wrong and hell, we might think that build is awesome.

so..anyone else got anything dumb to say?

[Blystos Re]

Jujubees, 'Tep?

[Thorac]

well i can say i have powerlvled alot of people from 5-16 never thinking much of it as i find it fun, but never have i agreeded with dual loggeing for any reason, to me dual logging is beyond an exploit it is plain cheating.

And when i sit back and think i agree with you Kim whole heartedly, common sence FTW.

I find it so amuzeing that most of the people that disagree are dual loggers go figure hahaha.

I got another to stir the pot - RULE 2. No dual logging of any kind when said player is involved with relics.

[cRaZy8or5e]

I didn't know that the polymorph was causing crashes. To date, when I've been polymorphed and killed I haven't caused a crash yet.

I was accused of one, but the sequence of events leads me to believe otherwise; I was killed I respawned, I rested, and then I started buffing, and then the server crashed.

This is not to say that polymorphing/shapeshifting doesn't cause crashes, but I still haven't seen one cause a crash.

[Gornickthy]

Gorn..i'd like the name of the shifter/druid/mage/ranger or whatever it was that caused you xp loss. i haven't seen a "shifter" crash in a few weeks....although the POLYMORPH line of spells that most other classes still get weren't changed in the shifter change. those still might be happening, which would denote a lowbie got smacked down.

Transition death will probably never be looked at...it has to do with you being in the neg hp, healing, then running through a transition and the db not reading you as being alive again. the best...BEST...and most reliable way around this is to rest in the zone before you transition...after that...good luck.

Hey Tep, thank you for the feedback on this. I am quoting you just so I can stay on topic here, not as a "look at what he said." I did not lose xp from the crash. A party member of mine went from level 5 back to level 1, and then addressed the DM that was on about the situation. Now, I will not pretend to know what was said, but the general gist was "you are s.o.l." The only reason I brought that subject up in this thread was because of the power leveling issue. At level 1 he no longer could be with the party where we were heading unless he was either power leveled back to or around level 5 or the DM, which I fully understand it is not their role to do so, but if the DM were to grant him his levels back. Items and cash are irrelevant, but the xp was a major hit and hindrance. It ruined the adventure we were on and put a halt to the evening's festivities for us. Again, I am not griping, but rather I wanted to address the still ongoing issue of the shifter (and I use the word shifter to cover all bases of form shape change here) crash and how it effects other players.

The transition death occurred after resting, after logging out, and pretty much after every attempt to prevent it short of actually dying. That is why I brought that up. I really was getting tired of following my lowbie around with one of my 40's just to rez him time and time again because of transition deaths. I more than anything just wanted to bring this back to the foreground to see if it could be looked at, but you know me.. a little sarcasm then a small flame and I dish it right back.

[disastro]

I am starting to take more of a dim view on this. Some players may have noticed that all of a sudden buffs are gone, and are left to fend for themselves ... On forced spawning....

Both of these mentioned here are exploits. there are no hard core rules governing then because they are exploits.

(emphasis added)

THIS WAS AND IS NOT A RULE...IT WAS A DM TELLING YOU THAT IT IS FROWNED UPON TO MASSIVELY POWER LEVEL YOUR LOWBIE IN AREAS THAT IT CAN NOT SURVIVE.

Tep, do you see how folks might be confused about what's going on?

does anyone understand it at this point...we constantly see if you actually someplace that your char has any type of chance in that area...prove us wrong and hell, we might think that build is awesome.

that's totally fine, just please don't call powerlevelling an exploit! THAT'S what caused people to think it was now against the rules.

thank you for the clarifying... everybody stand down... lol.

[diddy33]

yeah, but if it's not against the rules and just frowned upon, i don't see how that grants it ok for an experiance loss, i'm ok with stripping of buffs. if i die on the mountain i shouldn't be on the mountain. but to have exp loss to buffer/buffee, i don't like that idea as much.

[Amoenotep]

because if the mobs kill you because your some place your not...you take an xp hit...and for some ppl, thats the only thing they really understand.


sometimes when you gently try to get the point across to a player they think your out to get them....so....you just F5 everyone in the area until the point is made. you are out to get them.

[Apokriphos]

Okay. Everyone needs to sit back, relax, and take a breather.

Since the beginning of NS, our dms, devs, and DD have only been concerned one thing; making NS an enjoyable experience for us, the players - and we all know it. NS4 is just a game, and any changes from what we have now is up to them, fixing what they see needs to be fixed.

Am I the only one who sees the burst of activity as a good thing? The new rulings, the heated developer buzz (thanks Linuxpup & devs), new dms and a host of games and events are only improving things for the better!

So what if we can't have our 40th cleric walk around harming giants for our level 5's, or relic rewards change that don't penalize a faction so much for missing just 1 of the 6. Since when does an NS4 player complain that challenge isn't a good thing! We don't want our npcs to lie down and give us xp, we want to earn it. And despite all that, despite increased DM's and some whining by the populace, we had 44/46 on last night and it wasn't even a weekend.

Give the devs & dms time to get things right - time so we can hear out their arguments and decide will be changed for the better. Challenge is a good thing - thats why we play - not so I can farm harmed giants all day.

[Goreshade]

I just wanna say one thing....

Horse walks into a bar, bartender asks,

"Why such the long face?"

-Gorey

[Terl]

....Transition death will probably never be looked at...it has to do with you being in the neg hp, healing, then running through a transition and the db not reading you as being alive again. the best...BEST...and most reliable way around this is to rest in the zone before you transition...after that...good luck....

For the record the transition deaths occurred after resting, relogging, after being fully healed and after a PC had regained HP on his own due to the percentage chance you stop bleeding and self heal back to positives. This is an issue for those that don't dual log and are not in a party. This particular issue has caused the loss of at least 1000 xp on a PC that was under level 3(this occurred before partying up with Gorn). All of it occurred solo and all of it happened after the PC had self healed. This was also a PC that was engaged in killing rats, beetles and mole people not power leveling in any stretch of the imagination. There wasn't anything that could be done to stop it.
This may not seem like a big deal but to many, especially those that are new, it is a problem.
Now throw on top of that getting to level 5 and then a crash occurs and you are back to 1st level, well maybe some can see where frustration might occur. I did ask DM Kim for the levels back, she said no and that was pretty much the end of it.
I want to be clear that there was no whining, griping or back sassing going on.
It just sucked to play for 4-5 hours and be left with zero XP and level 1...not zero gain of XP mind you but zero XP.