General balancing problems

[Lokey]

Oh, anyway, there is a reason why giants can't be disarmed? Even if i manage to go past their discipline they still keep their weapons. Hardcoded?

Because they're giants

Soak from spell effect is a problem now. It shouldn't give an enhancement bonus (rumored fixed in 1.63), and the game mechanic problem of the way it works now will be looked at (there's a lot of these effects though).

[Thanos]

Lets just accept the facts. A pure fighter just can't compete in the DnD system up to level 20. 20+ is still to be determined.

How can a pure fighter be a viable class? Besides nerfing all the other classes.

Right now you pretty much have to mulitclass or take a prc to even think about being competitive with casters and HIPS based classes.

I think an easy solution would be to make class specific items. Make some AC equipment thats a lot better than normal ac stuff a cleric can wear. Make weapons that have extra damage that can only be used by fighters. I am saying make the items figthter restricted by level.

For example a 20 level fighter only weapon.
+4 long sword
Keen
3d6 slashing damage
2d6 acid damage
4d6 extra critical damage
20th level fighter requirement


20th level fighter weapon. Not a 20th level class weapon that a 19 cleric/1 fighter munchkin could use.

This could be done for all classes to reward players who level up 1 or 2 classes instead of people who take 1 level of pally so they can get some saves and use a few more feats. Like 19 sorc/1 pally should not be able to use a 20th level holy advenger sword.

[Souldin]

i think that would be really cool, just so multiclassing isn't what you have to do on every build.

[dond]

so you want to nerf every class /npc/dm encounter so a pure fighter can kill everything? uh nope. D&D here, gotta make use of all the options. cant just lazily build a character and expect it to perform better than people who put thought into their choices.

i agree that there should be certain gear for certain classes:

like archmage robes should require 20 wiz/sorc lvls.
weapons like tagnar's blade and his armor should require 20 fighter lvls
same for lagnar but for cleric etc

[RunarSterk]

so you want to nerf every class /npc/dm encounter so a pure fighter can kill everything?

Who suggested that?

D&D here, gotta make use of all the options. cant just lazily build a character and expect it to perform better than people who put thought into their choices.

Last I checked, which admittedly was quite a while ago, D&D wasn't about creating the uber-multi-class character that could do almost anything. Also, I don't think anyone who goes with a pure-class character is by default doing things lazily and not putting any thought into it.

i agree that there should be certain gear for certain classes:
like archmage robes should require 20 wiz/sorc lvls.
weapons like tagnar's blade and his armor should require 20 fighter lvls
same for lagnar but for cleric etc

This is a cool idea that I can't see any downsides to. Is it possible? There could even be primo gear requiring 35 lvls or so of a specific class.. maybe even make some 40 lvl pure class stuff.. why not?

[Thanos]

so you want to nerf every class /npc/dm encounter so a pure fighter can kill everything?

Who suggested that?

Last I checked, which admittedly was quite a while ago, D&D wasn't about creating the uber-multi-class character that could do almost anything. Also, I don't think anyone who goes with a pure-class character is by default doing things lazily and not putting any thought into it.

I have been arguing this point many many times. Bioware conversion of DnD has turned a group oriented rock paper scissors game into munchkin mania. You also lose the DM on top of it. Where a DM may say a palemater/wizard would prevent you from being a monk or having enough time to devote to a fighter career.

DnD has always been a rock paper scissors game. That is the whole purpose of grouping. Having a team of heroes to help compensate for your class weakness. Just because bioware allows monk/wizard palemasters or 20 sorc/1 level pallys dosen't mean the game was ever meant to be played that way. A 20 level sorc / 1 pally should have a severe exp penalty at least if any dm in his mind would allow such as class. A pally running around raising the dead or summoning evil mosters to help him fight dosen't sound too paladin like.

[LoZen]

Daltian, I didn't mean to say that you were an inexperienced player, poor choice of words on my part. I apologize for that.

However, I am no newb myself and I just have not been having the same experiences of 'imbalance' that many others seem to be having.

If there is a monster that has 40% damage immunity to every type of weapon, then yes that leaves a pure fighter with a bit of a problem. Although I haven't seen anything yet with those immunities, and does anyone really play a pure fighter to 20th level? Even if that is the case, joining a party would solve that, and many other problems that people seem to be having.

Weapon masters and Archers will run up against things that have damage reduction/immunity to their weapons. That is just a given, and I don't see a problem with it. That is the tradeoff you make for specializing in one type of weapon, and it pays off against everything that isn't resistant to that type of weapon. WM's will still have their insane crit damage, and AA's will have arrows that do extra damage and pretty much always hit. So if you're using only one type of weapon, and you run into something that is resistant to that type of weapon, change your tactics or bring some help. Get buffs, get some people who can do more damage, you could even hook up with another person who's having the same problem and double your damage that way.

The other big issue seems to be taking on mages in 1vs1 PvP. If this is what you want to do, there are many builds that can can accomplish the job. Monks, clerics, and other mages are probably the best at it. AA's and rogues can be effective as well. And yes, even fighter classes can be good at it too. Pick a subrace that has spell resistance. If you want to run around solo and fight mages, then build your character for that purpose specifically, and chances are you can learn to get good at it. But why even bother with that when you could just travel with a cleric buddy who could dispel and hit him with Hold Person while your rogue sneak attacks him into the ground?

This is my new mantra: Party, Party, Party. I have never had a problem trying to find a group. I get invites all the time, and when I've asked others to join me I don't think anyone has ever said no. And party PvP is much more fun than the 1vs1 duels. Try getting a raiding party together to go to another server and just kill everything you see (without griefing, of course). If you're lucky, they'll try to get their own group together to fight back and that's when the real fun begins

[dond]

actually, instead of having drops have class restrictions like above, it might be better to have it done thru epic quests.

ie. lvl 40 paladin can embark on an epic quest of faith. reward would be something like a powerful deva summon of said deity 1 use a day no drop item.

i think it would be better this way, not harming too much the multiclassers, but rewarding the pure class.

[JesterOI]

Didn't the devs say they were going to be making special items for pure classing PC's?

[Lothy]

whats a POINT in going pure class?

why not take 1-2 levels of other class to get benifits from that? NWN has 11 base classes plus many other prestige classes to give players wide choices of multiclassing options. multiclassing makes a well-round character build with good offense/defense. pure classes limit the characters by so much, i dont even understand the reason to go pure class.

or maybe people go pure just to prove their [editted]?

[Kelin]

LoZen i don't want to repeat 10 times the same thing, a cleric or wizard or sorc don't need a fighter in party and most of them i met didn't want to party. Surely partying would solve the problem, but not everyone wants to.
And, talking of immunity and reduction, among giants Tree Smasher and Soul Drinker both have like 30% immunity to slash bludge pierce, 10/ resistance to bludge and slash and 5/ to pierce. Now, the strongest piercing weapon a fighter can use (multi-damage weapon like halberds, pierce-slashing, morning star, bludge-pierce, longsword, slash-pierce, don't work 'cause they get resisted from slash or bludge) is a rapier, than, even if has a nice crit range, is still far away from the damage of, for example, a [censored] sword or katana. And we are talking of NAKED giants for the Tree Smasher. Wile a darkfire buff gets easily past their resistance 'cause they have no fire res.
Now, obviously grouping helps a lot in killing things faster and if the level difference is minimal the xp gain for each kill is almost the same. But what i don't understand is WHY fighters have to search group (that at least i never founded easily and had to be soloing most of the time shouting looking for party) to kill decenlty wile a cleric, sorceror or wizard can just solo easily all the stuff in no time. Ok, is normal that casters level up faster than non caster classes, but i fear that once reached a certain level the mobs have just so much immunity/resistance that is impossible to a fighter or any other class that rely on physical damage to harm them. I think that at least ALL the immunities should be removed. From mobs AND gear. 50% immunity to physical damage in my hopinion is stupid and senseless and shoul never be avaible in a mod. And there shouldn't be even an item with 10% immunity on a PvP oriented mod.

Once again, most of this problems will be avoided in a party. If you are so lucky to find someone willing to group.

And surely a fighter still has his place in a party, but a fighter is heavily gear dependant, 'cause you can have all the feats you want, but if your big rusty greatsword can't hurt the skin of that big dirty ogre they are almost useless

[YelloweFriday]

Eh lets just get rid of resistances completely. Really though, just get rid of the physical resistances on everything.

[Kelin]

Mmmm that could be funny but i don't think it's really needed. I mean, some resistance are ok, like 10/ to level 16 isn't too much even with the current gear; yes, it can bother to have 10 damage of your 2d6 bonus resisted every time, but still you can damage something. The big problem right now are the immunities. They are supposed to be high end gear stuff that usually shouldn't be founded on items. Even in NS3 with all his uberness there weren't much physical immunity items... i just wonder why all this immunity has been putted on NS4 items.
I mean, we have weaker weapons, weaker gear in general, but still so uber immunities. Doesn't make much sense

[XxDkCobraxX]

note: theyre giants. their hide is thick. i would imagine that dragons and dragonkin have a similar type of resistance on their hide.

[Elairn (Dart)]

i haven't read the whole topic because i don't have enough time (Real Life and Real Sleep drain my time). if you believe that casters are stronger than fighters, read the first post on this topic.

http://www.nsrealm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=890

there are ways to kill casters (nerfed or not), there are ways to kill fighters, there are ways to kill anything. just find the way.