Why even play NS4?

Devlin · Post by **Devlin** » Mon May 17, 2004 7:03 am

Why play?

Answer: To test stuff. Test different builds, explore to learn your way around, find exploits and bugs so Devs can fix them. Right now players should not worry much about what they lose because before goes from beta to being ready, there will be a wipe. So you are going to lose everything anyway.

Right now DM's and Devs are way more concerned with bug fixing, balance item and classes. And playing and testing themselves. Than they are with rules and rule enforcement.

But I hope there will be some base set of rules so new players do not run off and quit. like:

Killing npc's like store merchants and quest npc's.

Killing effortless players, unless effortless player asked for it.

That is the only 2 really needed to make everyone happy. Because in PvP someone has to lose.

BaconStrip · Post by **BaconStrip** » Tue May 18, 2004 1:04 am

Okay, now I'm officially O...U...T. I tried once more today after playing on a Nordock server that took forever and a day to level. I joined a game, and within 10 minutes I was being followed by an "Impossible" level theif who stole pretty much everything I owned from me. I told him to quit it, he laughed, I called the DM, and again, no answer. I tried Path of Ascension's server today and they don't allow anything remotely like this, there are scripts to solve most of the problems, and for those that the scripts don't solve, the DMs are ALWAYS on and watching. So any newbies who find are getting frustrated, check it out, you will like it, guaranteed. The only problem is finding a space because the servers are almost always full.

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Tue May 18, 2004 1:24 am

Great, a crib of pixels :p

bongoblue · Post by **bongoblue** » Tue May 18, 2004 1:40 am

Hmm. BaconStrip, I find that kinda hard to believe. I know lots of mmorpgs out there have similar problems with PK and item steal, etc.

Not saying its impossible to stop it, but I haven't heard of a game where it doesn't happen.

BaconStrip · Post by **BaconStrip** » Tue May 18, 2004 1:48 am

AndrewCarr wrote:Great, a crib of pixels :p

I don't see how having rules to maximize the enjoyment of EVERYONE (instead of the enjoyment of a few at the expense of many) make it a baby server. People who pk "effortless" are either kids acting like kids, or are the pansies of the real world who are acting out there fantasies of being important men. Either one of these categories needs discipline otherwise the game is ruined for everyone else. But like I said, if you like it, stick with it. I just wouldn't be surprised to see the mod crash and burn if it doesn't get this player abuse under control. The veterans don't see it as a problem now because they have higher level characters to retrobute. But when the servers get wiped, everyone starts over and if you are like me and don't have the 40 hours a week to level a character up, you are in for a world of frustration against people who spend the majority of the day leveling characters on the server.

A simple solution is to allow the characters to choose which level they want to join a faction, instead of forcing them to become a faction member and hostile to 90% of the server at level 1. Heck, do the Legend of Chance method of PvP, making you have to change your stance to hostile to someone who wants to pk you, in essence saying "yes, I am willing to fight you". Anything is better than the system they have now. But I doubt ANY of these problems will be addressed, otherwise they would have been by now. So I give up.

BaconStrip · Post by **BaconStrip** » Tue May 18, 2004 1:53 am

bongoblue wrote:Hmm. BaconStrip, I find that kinda hard to believe. I know lots of mmorpgs out there have similar problems with PK and item steal, etc.

Not saying its impossible to stop it, but I haven't heard of a game where it doesn't happen.

POA is a mod for NWN. It's in the "action" tab of Lamespy's servers. They have like 4 or 5 servers so don't take my word for it, join one of them and try to pk or pickpocket a newbie. You will be banned within minutes; it is that regimented. What I really want is a happy medium between the two, but LoC is pretty much it and their server lags and crashes like crazy, so....

Anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears, but I cant stomache NS anymore.

bongoblue · Post by **bongoblue** » Tue May 18, 2004 4:48 am

Actually, I'm one of the noobs who doesn't like pk nor pvp.

But I'll start engaging in it in 'self-defense'.

DrakhanValane · Post by **DrakhanValane** » Tue May 18, 2004 4:58 am

I prefer running in 'self-preservation'. :)

Mz_Shadow · Post by **Mz_Shadow** » Tue May 18, 2004 10:36 am

There is a server out there for everyone. Don't bash this one because you don't like it. If you don't like the style of play here then by all means find a server you do like. It does not mean it's better then the other servers, it's just different.

NS is alot of things, but there is no server out there who will please so many different styles of game play. For those of you who wants something more lead, then there is a server somewhere out there for you too.

If you find it, don't come back here and bash NS. There is really no point. Just move on and be happy you found someplace you do like.

BaconStrip · Post by **BaconStrip** » Tue May 18, 2004 12:11 pm

Mz_Shadow wrote:There is a server out there for everyone. Don't bash this one because you don't like it. If you don't like the style of play here then by all means find a server you do like. It does not mean it's better then the other servers, it's just different.

NS is alot of things, but there is no server out there who will please so many different styles of game play. For those of you who wants something more lead, then there is a server somewhere out there for you too.

If you find it, don't come back here and bash NS. There is really no point. Just move on and be happy you found someplace you do like.

Not bashing, pleading with the DEVs to fix an othewise fantastic mod. Surely you must see the inherent flaw in a system that allows level 20s to abuse level 2s. That isn't a "server style", it is just plain dumb.

Shasz · Post by **Shasz** » Tue May 18, 2004 12:41 pm

I've been part of a mud atmosphere that allowed level 20's to pvp level 2's like you say, but in the end, it was a good thing. Rather than add a level of bureaucracy and make the devs/dms enforce "good" behaviour, the players themselves did it eventually. And it was a marvelously good thing, and great fun to play both sides of the "conflict". (Dartmud fwiw)

Sure right now, that hasn't been achieved. But it will be in time. The good will police the mischeivious. That's the other benefit of open pvp. The griefers can be punished and hunted down with equal freedom.

Just think of open beta as the frontier days, with frontier justice, if any, being all you can count on for now. Eventually, society will take care of itself without all the DM intervention so many are insisting on.

My 2 cents.

Kell Of Neversummer · Tue May 18, 2004 12:51 pm

What I see happening is ns south rules being forced on thoses of us that refused to play on it, but loved the other ns3 servers. What I am afraid will happen is the people that loved ns but did not like south will leave.

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Tue May 18, 2004 5:14 pm

Shasz wrote:I've been part of a mud atmosphere that allowed level 20's to pvp level 2's like you say, but in the end, it was a good thing. Rather than add a level of bureaucracy and make the devs/dms enforce "good" behaviour, the players themselves did it eventually. And it was a marvelously good thing, and great fun to play both sides of the "conflict". (Dartmud fwiw)

Sure right now, that hasn't been achieved. But it will be in time. The good will police the mischeivious. That's the other benefit of open pvp. The griefers can be punished and hunted down with equal freedom.

Just think of open beta as the frontier days, with frontier justice, if any, being all you can count on for now. Eventually, society will take care of itself without all the DM intervention so many are insisting on.

My 2 cents.

Makes sense, start a notice board of some type that lists bounties and we'll be set.

Mz_Shadow · Post by **Mz_Shadow** » Tue May 18, 2004 5:41 pm

Kell Of Neversummer wrote:What I see happening is ns south rules being forced on thoses of us that refused to play on it, but loved the other ns3 servers. What I am afraid will happen is the people that loved ns but did not like south will leave.

Nothing is being forced. This is the way this mod was built. If you play here you are going to have to accept this. It is a PvP mod. Learn how to better yourself as a player to deal with PvP. There are ways to avoid it. Don't be the weak minded player and learn those builds that can defend yourself. Play with a party, don't go it alone.

It's a new mod, with new ideas and a new way to play. Embrace the challenge in front of you.

I challenge each one of you to find a build and a party to play with that can stand up to the hostle player... you can do it, I know you can.

Kell Of Neversummer · Post by **Kell Of Neversummer** » Tue May 18, 2004 6:21 pm

First, when I am giving the choice of playing by server rules that I disagree with or leaving, I consider that forced.

Second, I spend about 70% of my time on Pacific because I like the way PvP was handled there. I did not play on south because I did not like the way PvP was handled there.

What I see the current PvP on ns4 doing is driving away players that liked the PvP on the non south ns3 servers. If it does that, you will lose a large part of your player base.

Another thing is I have never made uber builds on any server and never will. I don't find that fun. My characters on any server evolve in response to what happens to them. They will probably never be PvP characters, but they have always been team players.

Besides, what fun is there in being out hunting bandits with a party when a lightning bolt (or something similar) comes from off screen and kills 2/3 of the party? It just meant we had to respawn and march back out to where we were trying to lvl and hope whiever did it had gone somewhere else.