Dev crit illegal

Talk about Neversummer 4 with your fellow players.
Chimaira
Looking for group
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 6:48 pm

Post by Chimaira »

DrakhanValane wrote:
Chimaira wrote:What is edited about a mages death spells? Oh right the animation...forgot that yea that really helps balance.
Um, Auto fail was removed from the spells. Can't do that to dev crit.
Removing auto fail is, in my oppinion, not neccisary to achieve balance. Its part of the game the way I see it, the only thing that turns it into something that puts fighters at a major disadvantage is when every bloody frecking mob has 10 uses of death magic or hold/mind affecting spells.
5% chance to die on FoD if there were some sane saves...18 FoDs average per mage. Thats a 90% chance to die if the mage has used all 18 FoDs(so if he uses 18 FoDs the chance of a fighter dying on 1 of them is 90%)Considering most damaging spells would only need like 15 casts at most with: 15 x 50 average dmg on a horrid = 750, most chars wont go over that with current con items cept DDs and barbs with everything pumped into con. And what is the point of removing auto fail when a fighter usually doesnt even save when he rolls a 10?

User avatar
sep caldessian
Wheres the donation box?
Posts: 190
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:48 am

Post by sep caldessian »

Chimaira wrote:
DrakhanValane wrote:
Chimaira wrote:What is edited about a mages death spells? Oh right the animation...forgot that yea that really helps balance.
Um, Auto fail was removed from the spells. Can't do that to dev crit.
Removing auto fail is, in my oppinion, not neccisary to achieve balance. Its part of the game the way I see it, the only thing that turns it into something that puts fighters at a major disadvantage is when every bloody frecking mob has 10 uses of death magic or hold/mind affecting spells.
5% chance to die on FoD if there were some sane saves...18 FoDs average per mage. Thats a 90% chance to die if the mage has used all 18 FoDs(so if he uses 18 FoDs the chance of a fighter dying on 1 of them is 90%)Considering most damaging spells would only need like 15 casts at most with: 15 x 50 average dmg on a horrid = 750, most chars wont go over that with current con items cept DDs and barbs with everything pumped into con. And what is the point of removing auto fail when a fighter usually doesnt even save when he rolls a 10?
if a fighter cant beat a mage in 18 rounds, he deserves to die.

Chimaira
Looking for group
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 6:48 pm

Post by Chimaira »

Heh what if the max AB for a fighter with +5 gear is 66, and mages can get around 70 AC with +5 AC gear. Count in concealment and 600+ average HP, and you got a pretty long lasting mage even for the fighter maxed out on the offense. Wheter he will last to cast 18 spells will depend. If the fighter only rolls 1s on his AB roll, there isnt much damage being dealt.

User avatar
sep caldessian
Wheres the donation box?
Posts: 190
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:48 am

Post by sep caldessian »

Chimaira wrote:Heh what if the max AB for a fighter with +5 gear is 66, and mages can get around 70 AC with +5 AC gear. Count in concealment and 600+ average HP, and you got a pretty long lasting mage even for the fighter maxed out on the offense. Wheter he will last to cast 18 spells will depend. If the fighter only rolls 1s on his AB roll, there isnt much damage being dealt.
70 AC? how?

600 hp? how? at what level?

and you can easily turn the dice rolling around and say the fighter rolls all 20s (automatic hit and makes all threat rolls as well). land an IKD and the match is pretty much over.

the fighter will be doing 1d8 base + xd6 (whatever high level added damage) + 10 STR mod + 1d4 alchemists fire + 6 from WS and EWS ... (plus whatever special goodies are on a high level weapon) 4-5 times a round. thats a minimum of 20 damage per hit, 80-100 minimum damage per round, at 600 HP the mage is gone in <6 rounds.

dond
Newbie Helper
Posts: 263
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 8:18 am

Post by dond »

lvl 40 is a long ways away considering planar areas aren't in...

BigDogNate
Noob
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2003 10:18 am

Post by BigDogNate »

I have to say i'd like to see dev crit brought back into the mix. I mean every mage at lvl 16 or above (probably even lower) has a death spell of some sort that requires a good roll on saves. The fighters need somethin that can dish out an instant death even if it would only happen on a rare occacion. I dont know about anyone else (and i'm sure people have seen things I havn't) but I havn't come accross any piece of equipment that grants immunity to death magic. Just my 2 cents.
Guybrush Threepwood - 'A Mighty Pirate'
Herman Toothrott - 'The Babling Toothless Idiot'

Lework
Looking for group
Posts: 121
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 2:45 pm

Post by Lework »

the highest DC possible by a mage is 45 correct?

Chimaira
Looking for group
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 6:48 pm

Post by Chimaira »

No.
Highest DC possible is 48 by a cleric.
45 is insane already for a caster, and only wizards are able to get that.
Sorcerers are maxed at 44 (With 10 RDD lvls, not nice) I believe.
Absolute maximum for a MAGE is 46 by a wizard with 9 RDD lvls.

To draw it out for sep, this is considering lvl 40, with +5 gear.
If gear is not +5 at max, then the numbers will come out slightly different, but the mage will always remain to have relatively decent AC compared to the fighters AB unless weapons have +20 attack and maximum AC on items is equal or lower to +5.
10 base, +1 dodge feat, +1 dex, +8 full plate, +3 tower shield, +2 armor skin, +25 magical bonus(Natural, shield, armor, deflect, dodge)+5 dodge from epic mage armor, +1 dodge bonus from mage armor, +8 from tumble = 64. Any sorcerer will only need to take another paladin lvl and start with 13 strength to gain the remaining 9 dodge AC with divine shield. And I said around 70 standard because I forgot that haste no longer adds +4 dodge, so its slightly lower. Which also means its alot more beneficial to use divine shield as a mage, since theres 9 AC you would gain(normally this would only be 5 gained since 4 AC from haste is considered dodge) Then again, you dont see many half orcs with 28 WM lvls, and not alot will have AB even close to 66, I was taking extreme maxed out chars for the example.
600 HP is pretty standard for a DC mage, 15 HP per lvl (30 con buffed, 1d4 from mage lvls, toughness +1 per lvl)

Æ
Wheres the donation box?
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 1:33 pm
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Contact:

Post by Æ »

I never got to play with a dev crit fighter... would be nice to try, without having to go somewhere else....

And there's no +5 gear in NS... the average fighter (non-weapon master, non-orc) get's around 56 AB with +5 weapons and +12 magical STR, and that's if we can put all out stat points in str (or dex for finessers)... we're likely going to have to start putting more in con for saves and HP to survive, the way things are going

We're not going to do very good at level 40 against mages with auto still... armor, shield, amulet, boots, deflection = 50 ac at top levels... and that's not considering if they took a tumble class level (+8 ac), 10-12 PM levels (4-6 ac), maybe rdd and bard levels (+4 natural, +8 tumble ac)... not to mention mage armor and epic ward, improved cat's grace, improved invis concealment, +5/30 reduction on premonition, haste to keep distance, etc, etc, etc, &c

And if someone says take friends I'm going to scream... no one's going to want a worthless fighter doing nothing for the party but leeching xp
{FotS} Ælæressai, Forsaken Avatar Of Ckær'evlon
14 Fighter/7 Weapon Master (Rapier)/1 Rogue [LA Outcast]

:[FotS]: Ælæressai, Forsaken Avatar Of Ckær'evlon
8 Rogue/1 Fighter/1 Shadowdancer [MA]

lord_modred
Spam Master General
Posts: 864
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2003 2:39 am
Location: pirating the spanish maine
Contact:

Post by lord_modred »

if your a fighter and you try to solo a wizard(unless your low levels) you deserve to die, even in ns3... a wizard could easily kill a fighter, hell, at level 30 my wizard killed a lvl 40 tank... you know what you do? get a cleric or a mage to buff you! that cleric spell resist spell is really handy against mages... and dont complain about them dispelling it, cause that takes time, by that time you'll be right up on him and you can knock his [censored] down, and as for "people not wanting a fighter", well if thats true... people are idiots, what is that mage gonna do when he gets attacked by that monk? or those assasins? saying that any class is useless(aside from harper scout) is sheer ignorance.
"O cruel fate, floating through the void of space like gravity's plaything. O to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones, it bones for thee."

help save world hunger!

Æ
Wheres the donation box?
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 1:33 pm
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Contact:

Post by Æ »

Yeah true, but casters never want to party with me, except the ones in my guild, but we're scattered and on at different times during the beta }: P
{FotS} Ælæressai, Forsaken Avatar Of Ckær'evlon
14 Fighter/7 Weapon Master (Rapier)/1 Rogue [LA Outcast]

:[FotS]: Ælæressai, Forsaken Avatar Of Ckær'evlon
8 Rogue/1 Fighter/1 Shadowdancer [MA]

BigDogNate
Noob
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2003 10:18 am

Post by BigDogNate »

I totally agree. I was saying the same thing. From what I have seen so far melee classes are gimped big time. Just the other day I got in a pvp battle with a mage class (im a ftr/wm) and we were the same lvl. I buffed a little bit and went to attack. Then just one spell was cast and I was lying there on the ground dead hitting the respawn button. If the mages are meant to have this hugh advantage then tell me. I'd be more than happy to just focus on making casters instead. But I like to play characters from many classes not just the casters.
Guybrush Threepwood - 'A Mighty Pirate'
Herman Toothrott - 'The Babling Toothless Idiot'

User avatar
Joran
Spamalot
Posts: 584
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2002 1:00 am
Location: Austin, TX

Post by Joran »

Dev Crit is gone, and it's not coming back. I think the issue's been beaten to death by now =)

Feel free to move the discussion of caster DCs to another topic, though.

Locked

Return to “General NS4 Discussion”