Physical resistances..too much of it?

Hieroneus Maxim · Post by **Hieroneus Maxim** » Mon May 31, 2004 9:10 pm

EvilIguana966 wrote:% resistances should not exist on items worn by casters. Clerics shouldnt be better fighters than fighters.

That kind of goes along with the idea of heavier armors having higher resistances, whereas robes having lower resistances. With clerics, however, there isn't much avoiding it because they can wear full plate.

IcemanXV · Post by **IcemanXV** » Mon May 31, 2004 10:34 pm

dond wrote:your ninja is also getting a -4 penalty to ab.

*was* getting a penalty. That server is long gone.

Actually I only got -2 for using a medium weapon in the offhand. All the minuses for being a rogue weren't minuses. I just didn't get the AB of a pure fighter. On that server, anything over a certain AB didn't matter much due to AC amounts. It was a PvP server anyway, and the +5d6 sneak was well worth it.

Trust me, this build is very viable so saying dual wielders are dex chars is an overgeneralization. Same would be if all thought ranger levels were required to effectively dual wield.

DrakhanValane · Post by **DrakhanValane** » Mon May 31, 2004 10:55 pm

You get an additional -2 for having a medium off-hand over the -2 for dual-wielding. Hence the -4.

IcemanXV · Post by **IcemanXV** » Mon May 31, 2004 11:00 pm

DrakhanValane wrote:You get an additional -2 for having a medium off-hand over the -2 for dual-wielding. Hence the -4.

Yes but I thought he meant the -4 over ANOTHER dual wielder, not someone who uses 1 weapon. That wasn't the comparison. It was a comparison between a dex dual wielder and a str one.

DrakhanValane · Post by **DrakhanValane** » Mon May 31, 2004 11:05 pm

Nah, he means the total penalty for each hand.

EvilIguana966 · Post by **EvilIguana966** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 1:40 pm

Its quite possible to limit items based on CLASS level too. Imb mith armor and shields would require at least 16 levels of any mix of the plate wearing melee classes. Some gear would only be character level restricted, some class archetype restricted, and some class restricted.

I'd break it down into
Caster Archetype: clr, dru, wiz, sorc, 0-15% DI, 5/- resist
Light Melee Archtype: bard, monk, ranger, rogue, 15-25% DI, 10/- resist
Heavy Melee Archetype: pal, ftr, barb, 25-45% DI, 10/- resist

I'm not sure where to stand on the shield issue. I see the point about the tradeoff for 2h vs 1 hand. Needs to be carefully balanced indeed, but I don't think we should jump too quickly to make weap/shield and 2 hand fighting equal but different. I think that using 2 hands should always put you at a disadvantage vs a melee creature/character, but give you a bonus against casters or in situations you aren't getting meleed. Shields should always be a better idea if you are being attacked physically.

Brennan068 · Post by **Brennan068** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 3:13 pm

EvilIguana966 wrote:Its quite possible to limit items based on CLASS level too. < snip >

I'd break it down into
Caster Archetype: clr, dru, wiz, sorc, 0-15% DI, 5/- resist
Light Melee Archtype: bard, monk, ranger, rogue, 15-25% DI, 10/- resist
Heavy Melee Archetype: pal, ftr, barb, 25-45% DI, 10/- resist

Just to point out here, my cleric wears full plate. He has since he could first afford an upgrade from the chain shirt he bought on stepping foot on this world. Also, he is quite a melee presence in battle... not always as good as a paladin or pure fighter, but sometimes

That is the trade that Clerics make to be between the melee force of being a "Heavy Melee Archetype" and a mage. Given the power of a Cleric it is an easy trade to make, but I don't see why a rogue, a monk or a bard would or should be allowed better armour than a Cleric.

EvilIguana966 · Post by **EvilIguana966** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 7:01 pm

Because clerics are supposed to be casters who wear heavy armor and can back up their magic with some melee skills. Mainly they wear plate because casting healing spells amidst a chaotic battle puts them in danger. The ability to wear 8 ac full plate instead of 0 ac robes is their benefit. As it is clerics tank just as well as any melee, they are not limited in AC, nor are they limited in resistances. However, throw in their spells, which are practically impossible to interupt as is, and they can buff themselves to be far more effective melee damage dealers than the tank classes can be. Now if that weren't enough, the cleric also has lots of ae damage spells, utility spells, heals, the ability to cure any ailment in the game, and of course HARM. This is all aggravated by the simple fact that resting is so easy to do. Casters don't pace themselves like they should.

Clerics by design use defensive magic to support the group and only engage in melee as a backup. It's the fighter/pal/barb etc who are supposed to be the tanks.

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:08 pm

I don't think many ppl really care about what things are "supposed to be like." As long as it's balanced, it's ok by me. So having fighter gear for mainly fighter clerics, and caster gear for mainly caster clerics wouldn't be bad. But as of now I don't see any incentive for clerics to use caster gear since they can get a decent ac by using plate, save pts by not maxing dex, and then they can use a moderate amount of spells to buff up melee, making them similar to fighters, and then I guess throwing in a few implosions to help. But yeah, I wouldn't mind a cleric in robes throwing spells around, and another cleric running around smacking ppl with a flaming weapon, as long as both were effective and reasonably balanced classes. But still, I don't see many clerics fighting like a beast and then nuking everyone to death either, since the harm nerf has helped prevent that.