Characters Logging out during PvP

Wolfarus · Post by **Wolfarus** » Fri May 21, 2004 3:34 pm

Yeah id have to agree with those general guidelines. If the player you want to target is below moderate, leave them alone and have some honor.

However, i can see a nasty exploit in this whole "engaging a player who's already in a fight with an NPC(s)". To me, this is just plain weak. If the player is having a moderate + fight with the npc's, let the fight finish and the player rest (but not re-buff. If you're a caster, you should have spells ready for those "on the fly" encounters). I can to easily see the exploiters and griefers taking advanage of a player fighting a hard fight, going in and weakenign them down so much that the NPC gets the killing blow, thus costing the other player the xp/gold.

Ive only ran into 3 people that readily comes to mind as hard-core griefers (they camp in a city and relentlessly kill everyone they can get their hands on, especially if they are a high lvl mage). I dont think griefing is going to be that big a prob with our community so long as the would be griefers know what is tolerated, and what isnt. Try to keep the "grey" areas down to a minimum, and we'll save ourselves allot of hassle, flames and arguments lol

So in summary...(takes on frankensteins voice)

PvP...Gooood...PKing/exploiting...Baaaaad. Fire, BAAAAAD!

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Fri May 21, 2004 5:35 pm

Actually this problem won't occur anymore once more and more people swell the ranks of the higher level chars.

Even though I like to fight with honor, and would allow a mage to rest up in order to have a fair fight, That sort of honor is a code that is pragmatically non existent in the game. Is that a bad thing? Not really.... Honor is something that really doesn't mean anything and that isn't a bad thing. There really is no way to control this through the dev's way. The best way has already been suggested, take pics of someone you suspect send them to DM's.

However, thereis a serious problem with this. I was fighting in NS, and my NWN broke 3 times during the same fight, I could be considered a cheater. How do you solve that problem?

Truthfully you can't. So really I think tha the best move is to leave this one alone. If omeone is laeving in order to restock spells, then while they are gone, just leave the area because this is a problem that can't truly be solved. Nuff said

Evolving_AI · Post by **Evolving_AI** » Fri May 21, 2004 6:13 pm

RadPro wrote:NS4 is a PvP mod. Therefore, it will not be removed from play.

PKing is harassment and will lead to disciplinary action by the DM team.

Now, if y'all want to be constructive, help us differentiate between the two.
I'll start with 2 examples. Even then, these examples aren't black and white.

Player 1 sees hostile player 2 running around Mountain Trail. He cons him and he's moderate. Player 1 attacks and kills player 2. This is PvP

Player 1 sees hostile player 2 leveling in a newbie area. He cons him and he's effortless. Player 1 attacks and kills player 2. This is PKing (harassment).

While these are not definitive examples, I think they are a good start at differentiating between PvP and PKing.

Your thoughts?

Ok, I had to put my 02 in being that I am one of the people that axon
has screenshots of as logging out.
However, I would log out for minutes at a time in hopes he/she/it
would leave and not bother me.
being that I was only level 18/19 and he was/is rated impossible to my character I never stood a chance.
Now I did choose a subrace .. Aasimar and when I die I do incur a penalty
and I was only 5/600 from leveling,
axon didn't belong to the faction in which he was chasing me down in
however I think it is funny that axon would mention this considering
and I don't care that you all call me a whiner or anything but
axon is a griefer.
I ran ran ran.. tried to lose him.. he just hasted and chased me down for all I'm worth..
now with that said I think it really all goes down to the biggest problem with ns4.. mages are too strong.. between a quick mord/wob or bigby's and isaacs combo not many of us are gonna stand a chance and with subraces being quite attractive as aasimar was for me.. it's not fair.
simple as that.
so either dispelling needs to become subject to SR so maybe some of us don't need to worry about instadeath magic or there does need to be a rule about
if you examine someone and their effortless.. you can't touch them.
they need to be atleast "easy" so their not so below your level.
I also think it would be fair to instate a "if they survive running from you for a few areas you should leave them alone"
I was not gonna fight axon so I also feel it would be injust to even label anything about our fight as pvp cause I tried to run at first sight.

thank you.

Brennan068 · Post by **Brennan068** » Fri May 21, 2004 6:13 pm

ATI wrote:
However, thereis a serious problem with this. I was fighting in NS, and my NWN broke 3 times during the same fight, I could be considered a cheater. How do you solve that problem?

I really think my solution would work here. You wouldn't neccessarily be flagged for review until several people had reported that you were relogging during fights. You would have your chance to explain your situation before any punitive action was taken. I've had lag get me during fights too; luckily not any pvp fights (I try to stay out of those.) If it is your copy of NWN and not the lag; I suggest you reboot your machine and clear some memory

ATI · Post by **ATI** » Fri May 21, 2004 6:33 pm

yeah, I need some more ram, because 700 something ram isn't cutting it on XP PRo

hehehe probably could use a 2.7ghz processor upgrade too

But yeah, I'm just worried because some newbie is gonna call me a cheater, when I am most definitely not. But we'll see

(aobut the system, not my cheating)

bongoblue · Post by **bongoblue** » Fri May 21, 2004 6:46 pm

Yup, XP Home needs 256 megs just to operate. XP Pro takes more.

bongoblue · Post by **bongoblue** » Fri May 21, 2004 6:55 pm

AndrewCarr wrote:Why don't you disagree agree with it, what are your thoughts on the subject?

[Edit:] Sounded like an accusation the first time :/

I'll guess your following up to me. No grouchiness intended towards you.

I feel that if a player with a 20th level character repeatedly attacks a low level player character, or one with low hp, then the attacker is not only in the wrong, but lacking in personal integrity.

Or they are basically emotionally unable to attack heavy duty monsters.

DrakhanValane · Post by **DrakhanValane** » Fri May 21, 2004 7:21 pm

I was running XP Pro on 256 MB of ram for a little while. A little sluggish compared to the 1 GB I have now, but it definitely runs fine.

Post by **Lokey** » Fri May 21, 2004 7:42 pm

NWN isn't that crash prone. I was on 56k for a good portion of last year and rarely dropped (things would get a little dicey after an hour or two continuously connected, but I'd relog and everything was fine).

High video settings for shadows and dynamic lighting, environmental mapping on creatures, highest setting on animations and visuals are the most expensive cpu-wise, but even then you get a slideshow instead of a crash. Same for the premium sound settings.

My box is sub-par for 1.62 requirements: 1.1 GHz CPU on 266 MHz bus, 512 MB DDR RAM, GeForce3 (64 MB) on 4xAGP, no fancy sound gear, 40 GB harddrive with 8 GB of NWN stuff and 20 GB of other stuff that I defrag once a blue moon, and I can get a stable and decent looking/running game out of it.

If your game isn't stable, ask in help and support here or go to http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewforum.html?forum=49

-----

There isn't a way to tell if a client drops due to a technical reason or for having too few spells and hitpoints left--in any game let alone NWN. Lamers will be lame no matter the game.

Alexiagold · Post by **Alexiagold** » Fri May 21, 2004 7:48 pm

This is a fuuny post coming from Axon.

Ironically its one of your clan mates that made me post this, since one of you CI people would always log out before dying, I watched her do it 12 times in a row before I got fed up and left.

Ah yes, Ras, the reason I posted.

However, I would log out for minutes at a time in hopes he/she/it
would leave and not bother me.

Actually my Screen shots are 12 seconds apart with you logging out and back in, roughly every 12 seconds 4 times in a row before you started logging out for longer.

being that I was only level 18/19 and he was/is rated impossible to my character I never stood a chance.

Hrm, yes I'm sure your build just goes uber powerful in epic levels compared with not being epic? Like there is a difference. I routinely kill Firken and his wizard is impossible to me.

now with that said I think it really all goes down to the biggest problem with ns4.. mages are too strong.. between a quick mord/wob or bigby's and isaacs combo not many of us are gonna stand a chance and with subraces being quite attractive as aasimar was for me.. it's not fair.

In 12 bigby's only one actually affected you, and yet you still chose to whine about bigby. Your fort was higher at level 19 then my DC at level 27 for Wail, and yet you again chose to whine about this. And oh, I'm sorry I used IGMS, as opposed to say horrid or chain both of which would have done the same damage, or hell since you were knocked down a fighter would have crited you for over 150 damage since you couldn't switch gear to combat a fighter's weapon damage type.

axon is a griefer.

My favorite. Really so many things to say to this, the first and obvious one here is that in NS3 you started it with me, you threatened me, and you killed me. And then I stole your pain, and you cried like a little baby. Now in ns4 when I encounter you, you are hostile player, you are level 19, and you call that griefing. Again I see you are crying like a little baby. I'm pretty sure NS4 is about PvP, hrm, lemme check:

NS4 is a PvP mod. Therefore, it will not be removed from play.

The servers will be Player vs Player and faction battle will happen

ultimate goal - to eliminate the other powers and take the realm of Aetheria for themselves, once and for all.

Yup, NS4 encourages PvP, not just tolerates it.

You are a fair PvP target, being fully capable of winning that fight. But instead you logged out I believe 12 times total in a 15 minute period, before logging out for 25+ minutes. All after I diasbled you in some form or another, or cast mord on you, which you would log out, get back your buffs, recast upon loging in, log out upon debuff.

Oh by the way I can afford Boarding Lessons for my Daughter if you give them.

Since you seem desperate to keep hitting on me, let me tell you three things: 1 Alta doesn't allow boarders 2 I still have a SS of you calling me a little **** and telling me that I'd better pray you never meet me in RL 3 You made a post in an attempt to get me banned.

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Fri May 21, 2004 8:05 pm

bongoblue wrote:
AndrewCarr wrote:Why don't you disagree agree with it, what are your thoughts on the subject?

[Edit:] Sounded like an accusation the first time :/
I'll guess your following up to me. No grouchiness intended towards you.

I feel that if a player with a 20th level character repeatedly attacks a low level player character, or one with low hp, then the attacker is not only in the wrong, but lacking in personal integrity.

Or they are basically emotionally unable to attack heavy duty monsters.

Well if it's just that i can understand, but frequently people see someone griefing them, while to others it's pvp. I killed one person and his guildmates(if i saw them) when i'd run by them on my server, and even though i killed him maybe 3x in 2 days, he was angry, thought i was a dick, and pretty much was griefing him. I considered it defending my faction. But if the person is way low lvl i can understand, but unfortunately then they may not last long enough to log. For example, last night a lower lvl party member and i jumped a dwarf of my lvl(22) who walked by while we were killing dwarf guards. Well, we debated whether to kill or not, i snuck up, attacked, while my party member took a dispell and launched a couple spells back. dual wielding imbued mith rapiers, with improved crit, favored enemy dwarves, and bane of enemies, and he was dead in less than 10 sec i'd say. So if that can happen to someone with hundreds of hp(even though i was being cheap at the time) then i don't hold out hope for a low lvl being able to log vs a lvl20. But then again, if they can, and if they are actually being griefed from an objective standpoint, then i understand.

And along with the aasimar thing, or the thing about losing xp. It sucks more, yeah, that you may die, but it doesn't make it right imo to cheat and disappear, especially if it's your fault you got attacked(presented self as vulnerable, walking along idly, snuck up on, stuff like that), it just makes the choice of cheating or not cheating more difficult.

AndrewCarr · Post by **AndrewCarr** » Fri May 21, 2004 8:13 pm

Rasputin, i'm not sure if you heard this in the shout channel on server 4 today, but it sums up the situation of your's pretty well. We were telling a new char, lvl1, how pvp works in neversummer, and one of the responses was, paraphrased, "Killing effortless and easy players is lame, but that sorta breaks down at higher levels." I know for a fact that i can kill probably any of the high lvl mages. In some cases i'd probably have to follow them around until the rest, but that's beside the point

I can also get killed really quickly by people who disarm me, one such case was done by a lvl 14 or so(i'm lvl22). Now I carry multiple sets of rapiers so that this won't be too severe, but i had to adapt to a situation, and if someone catches you with your pants down, like i was the first time, then you're pretty screwed. Like you easily could've done to axon in a few ways.
sneak attacks, weapon that'd go thru premonition/stoneskins, mord disjunct and death/disabling spells, or an ikd. So just try to figure out why axon kept owning you(you got to see it 12x instead of one, lucky you :p ) and fix, to the best of your ability, what went wrong.

bongoblue · Post by **bongoblue** » Fri May 21, 2004 8:14 pm

Lokey wrote:NWN isn't that crash prone. I was on 56k for a good portion of last year and rarely dropped (things would get a little dicey after an hour or two continuously connected, but I'd relog and everything was fine).

I've had my computer crash after using the toolset, but not since ijumped my ram upto 384 megs.

Lokey wrote:My box is sub-par for 1.62 requirements: 1.1 GHz CPU on 266 MHz bus, 512 MB DDR RAM, GeForce3 (64 MB) on 4xAGP, no fancy sound gear, 40 GB harddrive with 8 GB of NWN stuff and 20 GB of other stuff that I defrag once a blue moon, and I can get a stable and decent looking/running game out of it.

Much faster than mine.

I have a Compaq 7560, 550MHz, 384 megs of pc100 ram, Radeon 7200 with 32 megs video ram, x40 cdrom drive.

edit: corrected computer model number

dond · Post by **dond** » Fri May 21, 2004 10:01 pm

king rasputin : DS: eh?

you're that idiot that went killing SL lowbies because someone killed you....and ofcourse when that someone came back to kill you, you logged off.

ironic that axon was chasing you too lol
see, these things sort themselves out! the griefers get the griefers

Alexiagold · Post by **Alexiagold** » Fri May 21, 2004 10:31 pm

Herm, yes well I've always been fighting for the defense of those players who couldn't defend themselves. I just don't go around tooting my own horn, or for that matter insist upon those who I help to make posts about it. I'm not a griefer, never have been. The only reason that I'm still commonly labeled as one is because I don't make posts like this all the time, I don't try and drown out the actual griefers. For example since I'm in a rare mood, Ayran routinely used racist remarks, pked lowbies, and other things which I took SS of incase I got bored one day, like today. Ras, well on Ras I've likely got 200 or more SS of him breaking server rules and being a jack ***. But Ras donated $100 to NS.

As far as I know, the only people who have called me a griefer are those who have been griefers and I've stopped from continueing to grief others. Apparently some people also failed to understand that NS4 initially (as in on release) directly told players if you read the documentation to slaughter on sight all hostile faction players. Only after the obvious lowbie vs high level player issue came up did the rules change. I don't believe I am or ever was a griefer because I used to play DAoC, which has a faction system and often lowbies were killed in RvR. So basically I was used to that mindset, something few NS4 players brought to NS4.