It's a tough world out there.

[Daltian]

AO has their guards killing them for distraction, its better then having jobs!

[diddy33]

level's 1-5 or so is for jobs, yeah AO doesn't have jobs, lets make fun of that some more, it helps. . so usually AO just take right off for ave, because there's nothing worth sticking around for. i don't think everyone starting in ave would really help at all. it may help you find a party quickly, but it doesn't help you learn the server. i've helped helped plenty of new people when i see the shouts asking "now what" after they enter the realm. and sometimes i will just help them get to ave so they can meet up with a party. badshot is nice like that. . . bingo . . not so nice. . or i can meet up with them, drop them off some money, give them pointers, and a quick buff. about as warm of a welcome you'll get from a PWnD player.

[Tsavong]

Ye if i see lowbies around Garagoth ill buff them a bit and drop cash some times and tell them to enjoy the 1st lvls of getting killed by rats

[frogofpeace]

yeah AO doesn't have jobs, lets make fun of that some more, it helps. .

Sorry, was intended as good-natured ribbing. You know we love you, or love to hate you, or something along those lines. Jobs are very useful for the low levels.

The lethal guards is totally funny, though I always wonder if that was intended, and who the joker was who set it up that way. I'd ask for that to be changed before I'd worry about the jobs.

[Shadowalker]

leveling to about level 6 or 7 is my least favorite part of the server. Hours of goblin killing by yourself sucks after a while. The problem for players playing their first toon here is that they don't know where ave is, and don't usually make it there until about level 10 or so, though newer players do have jobs to distract them, unless they decide to go AO.

I actually enjoy the first levels... the solitary play is peacefull... and no one knows my new toon by name so the only tells I get are from players who know the (TSS/FoN] tags as helpfull. Not that I mind the tells I get on my 'known' toons.

[Tsavong]

There are a lot of lowbie areas around than there are for the lvl 30s or more, which don't get much use so there is much more exploring to be done at low lvl than high.

[trickovthlyte]

There are a lot of lowbie areas around than there are for the lvl 30s or more, which don't get much use so there is much more exploring to be done at low lvl than high.

Lot's of lowbie areas that don't get much use eh? Kindly name a few of them so guys like me will know what you're talking about.

Ye if i see lowbies around Garagoth ill buff them a bit and drop cash some times and tell them to enjoy the 1st lvls of getting killed by rats

Man, you shoulda told them about all the lowbie areas that don't get much use. Maybe the rats wouldn't kill them then.

AO just take right off for ave, because there's nothing worth sticking around for.

I see what you mean.

i don't think everyone starting in ave would really help at all.

Oh really? Then why do you take right off for Avendale?

it may help you find a party quickly

Make up your mind.

it doesn't help you learn the server.

Ah! Maybe you and the guy who knows all the lowbie areas that don't get much use can conduct guided tours?

[Amoenotep]

i know where all the areas are. i know what lvls can get used there. i know that not everyone on this server uses them to the potential they could be. alot of the lvling that goes on is rinse/repeat lvling.

[Tsavong]

Lot's of lowbie areas that don't get much use eh? Kindly name a few of them so guys like me will know what you're talking about.

Well there are the Mezoloths, gnolls, bandits, some of the undead around NC and the Amazons, the lower level Amazons even faction cites such as Neversummer. I'm sure there are more but I'm not going to write you a list.

Man, you shoulda told them about all the lowbie areas that don't get much use. Maybe the rats wouldn't kill them then.

So something else more deadly would?
There is not much alternative to fight the starting mobs in and around your starting city so you probably will get killed by rats, unless your NC they will be undead rats or TC and they will be goblins.

And yes it is possible to take off to Ave but you would need a cleric and may be a bard for a level 1 to take on the mobs around there I would think.

[VagaStorm]

There are some mobs around AO that can have a way higher xp/time ration than runing to aave straight away. Espechaly considdering there are not many lov lvl mobs around ave exept goblins, and even those are to hard for an unbuffed lvl 1. Then agen, a lvl 1 probably cant get to ave with out a buffer...

[Tsavong]

That is a good point there when I levelled an AO, back in the day pre wipe, I and the others I was levelling with got the 1st 5 to 9 levels around sleeth and there were no jobs for AO back then ether. I seem to remember Ancient Road was quite fun. There is plenty of point to stick around there at low level I should think.

[Shadowalker]

For me the key to low lvl adventure, is know your prey. Goblins and rats have poor eyesight.. a ranged wpn can pick off many before they are aware of you. Even if not a dex build, you can still make a decent go of it. The gargoyals of Ainchient road are sweet xp and you generally dont have to deal with more than one at a time. If the local grizzlies attack ya, well thats just bad Karma for not hugging a tree today.

[Ryddwillow]

Neversummer is a harsh world, filled with terrifyingly powerful monsters, deadly traps, and capricious Gods. It's harsh, and seems to get tougher all the time.

So I'd like to carefully broach the subject of "how much is too much?" Over the year or so that I've been playing, there have been lots of changes to NS4, and for the most part I have very few complaints about each individual change. Our overworked devs put a considerable amount of time and thought into each change before they make it, and I want to start by saying this work is appreciated.

Now most of the changes to NS4 really are intended to bring balance to pvp, and accomplish that wonderfully. One of the best things about this server is the huge variety of builds that are actually useful pvp, it's friggin beautiful. It's the environment out on the adventure side I'd like us all to discuss.

There have been a great many changes to quite frankly make NS4 just brutally difficult. Sometimes I think that's awesome, what fun would places like Celestia and the Abyss be if they were easy? The thing is, the whole server has gotten very nasty in most all areas beyond level 30ish. Often I don't personally notice, because I'm a guild member, already have multiple toons at level 40, and have access to great gear etc. But what's happened is that all these changes, things like adding traps that will kill and level drain you, altering the AI on what seems like half the mobs on the server to make them meaner, adding new and improved mobs to areas that previously were considered too easy... all these things are turning the level grind for normal/casual/new/off-peak players into a nightmare.

The veteran players deal with it, take huge or well built groups to level all together, and are always going to find a way to progress. But new players to NS4 are to put it bluntly, screwed. More than that, what's happening is that players are forced more and more into the same ole areas to level over and over and over. Everyone knows what I mean, how many hours have we all spent dulling our swords in Dwarf Home & Skara? There is a certain logic behind the fact that every monster on NS4 who has Ice-Storm will spam it, and more logic that maybe there should be more and deadlier mobs in areas than before, and again, it's not too unreasonable taken alone that there might be traps out there which can kill you, but when we start dealing with all these things together with the very frequent nerfs which over time lower the effectiveness of most every build... It's become quite frankly more of a pain to simply level your toons to 40 than many people are willing to deal with.

Every week we get new players, and let's be honest, most of them leave and leave quickly. It's at the point now where players in off-prime timezones are taking weeks and weeks just to move from 35-40, and have absolutely no chance to ever see places like Celestia/Abysss. There are so many really neat areas like Water Plane, which are really cool looking and challenging, but give so few rewards in exp/gear that the only time anyone ever goes there is to farm the boss for his drops.

Anyway this post is getting long, so let me sum up. NS4 kicks a lot of butt, and we all very much love the difficulty in endgame areas like DWP etc. We also appreciate and understand that making leveling tough adds a certain amount of meaning and appreciation for achieving 40. I really think some thought should be given to raising the amount of XP received from monsters in many areas, however. We could really really use some tweaks that just make leveling a bit less monotonous. Challenge is fun, challenge with very little reward is much less fun.

Please don't view this as a criticism of the dev team, simply as feedback from what I'm seeing/hearing as a reaction from players and my own experiences.

_________________
The views expressed in the above post are solely the opinion of the poster, and do not necessarily represent the views of PWnD or RR.

Hmm, I actually read this whole forum post. First of being here 1 year doesn't count for crap from a dire rat here. I have met my friends here that have been here for 2 yrs or more and do not know where locations are when a DM gives a challenge in which it is a location. A few things down the road I have seen to point out the new players. Whatever faction I tend to play I give new players gold when they answer my tells. If they are retarded they can fend for themselves. This place needs another giant mountain and always has. Dm Metis did a good job on the ant creatures but they are a tad bit hard and at that lvl hardly good exp. compared to giant Mtn. Maybe make them connect or something. I have seen many a spell or metamagic spell decreased here or wiped out. I have seen many a nerf in my years here. I know what spending time at Skara and Dwarven Plane seems to be forever cause each new area comes out you need like 10 ppl in a party. Then a dm would say limit your parties to 6 ppl cause of lag. Hey I like this place and I think the higher lvl areas are well design but this is a PVP server and all detail ='s less PVP. I admit I'm old skool here and face many a battle vs pvp and it brought adrenaline to me fighting a player but , when it comes to like the Fire Lord, I'm just stripping him of his equipment to use for example. I mean you get to caught up in the way you need to get the equipment, by how many players you need then I like, whatever. This is a PVP, period. This is listed under PW-Action. I like the whole set up but when we have to wait for like 3 weeks to get enough players to make a good run at it then why? I'm not saying make it really easy but enough for like 6 ppl is fair. Getting half the server to fight some Diety is right, but minions? This is a PVP server with many avenues here, make it a tad easier and focus on PVP. Since money is no option here try to add mercenary's to every raiding party like minions that are better then the gaurds and make money matter here. I mean I know what it is like leveling in the same area over and over. Some nice change is welcome.

[Celorn]

Hmm, I actually read this whole forum post. First of being here 1 year doesn't count for crap from a dire rat here. I have met my friends here that have been here for 2 yrs or more and do not know where locations are when a DM gives a challenge in which it is a location. A few things down the road I have seen to point out the new players. Whatever faction I tend to play I give new players gold when they answer my tells. If they are retarded they can fend for themselves. This place needs another giant mountain and always has. Dm Metis did a good job on the ant creatures but they are a tad bit hard and at that lvl hardly good exp. compared to giant Mtn. Maybe make them connect or something. I have seen many a spell or metamagic spell decreased here or wiped out. I have seen many a nerf in my years here. I know what spending time at Skara and Dwarven Plane seems to be forever cause each new area comes out you need like 10 ppl in a party. Then a dm would say limit your parties to 6 ppl cause of lag. Hey I like this place and I think the higher lvl areas are well design but this is a PVP server and all detail ='s less PVP. I admit I'm old skool here and face many a battle vs pvp and it brought adrenaline to me fighting a player but , when it comes to like the Fire Lord, I'm just stripping him of his equipment to use for example. I mean you get to caught up in the way you need to get the equipment, by how many players you need then I like, whatever. This is a PVP, period. This is listed under PW-Action. I like the whole set up but when we have to wait for like 3 weeks to get enough players to make a good run at it then why? I'm not saying make it really easy but enough for like 6 ppl is fair. Getting half the server to fight some Diety is right, but minions? This is a PVP server with many avenues here, make it a tad easier and focus on PVP. Since money is no option here try to add mercenary's to every raiding party like minions that are better then the gaurds and make money matter here. I mean I know what it is like leveling in the same area over and over. Some nice change is welcome.

Amazing! is this really willow?! This is the most intelligent thing you've ever posted.

This is another thing that has plagued NS4 for a long time both from a player and dev perspective... the balance between PvE and PvP, it's just doesn't seem possible to accomplish. You fix something for PvP and it breaks PvE, or the other way around. You make a spell more powerful for PvP balance, but then some mob uses the same spell and it becomes totally overpowering. I disagree about 'PW-Action' it doesn't really MEAN 'PvP', it just means there isn't role-playing or quest-driven play, it's just..Action, fighting monsters or other players, or both at once!

The difficulty of some areas, and lack of players both created the need for people to dual-log just to get parties powerful enough to defeat things -- and even then you have the problem of what i call 'the-luck-of-the-spawn' sometimes you get dealt a really difficult combination of mobs that can wipe your party in seconds, a very frustrating thing that makes people leave the game if it happens too many times. It gets to the point where you are building specific toons just to beat specific areas because any other combination will usually fail, and people have limited time to play so failing is NOT an option. But then the devs see this and nerf these builds so that suddenly you need to build new toons to lvl40 to beat areas again, thus adding to the aggravation of the player.

One player-solution as you say is to make huge parties that can overwhelm/mob the mobs... but then this causes severe server lag and the lag can even crash the server or cause people to lag out, etc.

So what can you do? I personally went to other games, but I'd love to come back to ns4, if 'new' areas and 'major changes/nerfs' finally STOP and settle, so that I know the characters i am pouring hundreds of hours into are not going to be useless a month later.

[Amoenotep]

my heart bleeds for you Celorn...i'd feel more sorry for you if you actually played ns4 still.