ECL 3 races

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Lokey
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Re: ECL 3 races

Post by Lokey »

Truenamers seem ok through most of the levels. Yah, the increasing dcs get them in the end without dm intervention, but they have a number of neat things to do. It's only a lame class in games with things like wiz, cler, druid, etc :)

Yah, using a skill to resolve things is lame, but it's not scaled that badly nor used for everything.
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mining
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Re: ECL 3 races

Post by mining »

Lokey wrote:Truenamers seem ok through most of the levels. Yah, the increasing dcs get them in the end without dm intervention, but they have a number of neat things to do. It's only a lame class in games with things like wiz, cler, druid, etc :)

Yah, using a skill to resolve things is lame, but it's not scaled that badly nor used for everything.
Yeah, but its a flawed class - someone who basically reviewed it over a campaign:
"He has taken an odd race, 2 +10 magic items(meaning a significant chunk of his WBL), and used an association from CChamp to become effective, and he's still having issues during play. [. . .] Yeah, he's having fun with it, and it's working out well, but that is in spite of the class, not because of it."
-The Truespeak DCs are nearly impossible to meet without heavy optimization. If you don't book dive and bend over backwards, you simply can't use your primary class ability. God help you if you choose to play at low levels.
-The Law of Sequence blows [censored]. The fact that you don't have any multi-target abilities is bad enough, but the fact that you can't even re-cast your utterances (or indeed use their reversed versions, because Pun-Pun forbid you should want Haste and Slow at the same time) is nearly unforgivable.
-Utterances aren't that good. They have their perks, but even the Monk gets evasion. Most of the time, even when they work, they compare unfavorably to Invocations that you can get at the same character level, and they mostly fail to scale up as you increase in level (the level 6 LEM utterances are almost universally awful, and none are appropriate for level 18 characters).

So, you have to work your [censored] off to use subpar abilities that you can't even use the way you want to. That's what's wrong with the truenamer.
Bargeld wrote:Overall, I think most would agree that a pure rogue is probably the worst build on the server.

Rufio
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Re: ECL 3 races

Post by Rufio »

Dazrield wrote: Monk and ECL 3 can be lowered for a time
sorry for being picky, but this has been bugging me: Monk spell resistance can't be lowered.

Now that this info has been shared, I expect to see at least 1 or 2 spell resistance monks pop up on the server :P
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Elagneros
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Re: ECL 3 races

Post by Elagneros »

Alkapwn wrote: I'd go as far to say that pvp is much more balanced than pvm here.
It probably is. I haven't seen many of the planes, most were added after I left, and some of them have a reputation for being very very difficult. I get the impression that they were originally designed with some of the powerful builds in mind that were more common years ago, but successive nerfs made those build less useful while the bosses remained strong. Celestia and the Abyss are two that are frequently mentioned as near impossible without the right sort of build because less optimized toons will get torn apart repeatedly. My highest current toon is level 18, so I'm in no position to see for myself yet; the easiest planes IIRC are mid to upper 20s with a good party.
@Elagneros- I'm not sure what experiences you've had with the pvp you've actually had. I don't recall ever fighting any of your toons unless your logging Mamba's toons. Its all about having the right toon vs the right adversaries . It's not so cut and dry as to just plainly say its unbalanced. PvP takes skill and the learning curve is pretty high. It takes time, gear, a broad understanding of builds, a pool of lvl40's to pick from, and actual player and toon knowlege (e.g. "Thats Alka on Phalanx he's gonna tank and heal so we should ...tactic B")
I'm not sure if I've fought you since you joined after I left, and I only use one login. If I did, it was that DD I ran into down in FD last week. I did a fair amount of pvp in the old days, but I was never a big fan of it.
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mining
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Re: ECL 3 races

Post by mining »

PVM's arguably gotten easier because building and tactics have improved enormously. People are doing DWP in 90 minute from start to finish :(.
Bargeld wrote:Overall, I think most would agree that a pure rogue is probably the worst build on the server.

Rufio
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Re: ECL 3 races

Post by Rufio »

Celestia and the Abyss are rather new in relation to a lot of the nerfing. I think the only big nerfs since then are the EMA nerf, Shifter nerf, and maybe the pale master ac nerf. Mining is right though, there are some bosses that have actually been buffed up once people started devising strategies for killing some of the normally endgame bosses solo or in teams of 2. There are actually a good amount that can still be killed that way, it is just harder now. Elysium has been added rather recently, not much at all has been nerfed since then, and it has one of the top 2 hardest bosses on the server in it.

There is a learning curve in those areas. Once you hit 40, get together your friends and try them out, don't worry about having to respawn some. It is mostly all about bringing builds that fill one single role and do it very well, and putting together a party where all the important roles are filled. It takes some good planning and it is rewarding when you get it right, but what you find out is that there are some builds that fit those specific roles much better others, so you end up using the same few builds over and over. I think that in PvP you see more diversity because unlike the mobs' AI, people can adapt, so if you bring a build that can only do one thing well, people will just find a counter for it. In PvP versatility pays off, but in PvM it rarely does.
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Bargeld
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Re: ECL 3 races

Post by Bargeld »

Rufio wrote:In PvP versatility pays off, but in PvM it rarely does.
Well put.

That tidbit could even be considered 'on-topic'. <cough>RK diversity<cough>
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Ryddwillow
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Re: ECL 3 races

Post by Ryddwillow »

That tidbit could even be considered 'on-topic'. <cough>RK diversity<cough>
RK has always been a desolate place for along time now. Diversity is good but when 4 or 5 ppl play RK per day, then that comment goes out the window. I think you are referring to PVP when you made that comment. The old players have left, gone, and moved on. Why? Could be for many reasons, no one knows for sure. A few ppl from the past give their reason for some sort or another. Valid opinion, yes, because your opinion is welcome here to make the game better. They hope it does not fall on deaf ears but, I know it doesn't.
Celestia and the Abyss are rather new in relation to a lot of the nerfing. I think the only big nerfs since then are the EMA nerf, Shifter nerf, and maybe the pale master ac nerf. Mining is right though, there are some bosses that have actually been buffed up once people started devising strategies for killing some of the normally endgame bosses solo or in teams of 2. There are actually a good amount that can still be killed that way, it is just harder now. Elysium has been added rather recently, not much at all has been nerfed since then, and it has one of the top 2 hardest bosses on the server in it.

There is a learning curve in those areas. Once you hit 40, get together your friends and try them out, don't worry about having to respawn some. It is mostly all about bringing builds that fill one single role and do it very well, and putting together a party where all the important roles are filled. It takes some good planning and it is rewarding when you get it right, but what you find out is that there are some builds that fit those specific roles much better others, so you end up using the same few builds over and over. I think that in PvP you see more diversity because unlike the mobs' AI, people can adapt, so if you bring a build that can only do one thing well, people will just find a counter for it. In PvP versatility pays off, but in PvM it rarely does.

Somewhat still the same in builds: A cleric, bard, and melee's. Now with the server population being low many a times it is basically who you can get. Still the same as PVP (Diversity). Mages are gone, good at debuffing and maybe a summons but, there are done.

sorry for being picky, but this has been bugging me: Monk spell resistance can't be lowered
sure it can :wink: for a bit


I mean LA was so successful because of a Diversity of classes and a Diversity of races. Why is NC or TC or SL or MA popular? Limited classes and ecl3. AO has no jobs, that is a gimmie. Rk has to much diversity and needs to be limited and get some RK only ecl3 classes. Then one might say, "Hey, RK is the most diverse faction out there and they should be the most grandest faction out there." One might ask the Old players that played the faction and hear there comments from the past and sit and wonder why they all didn't build the best shadowdancers in the faction. Maybe they would still be here now, all of them with shadowdancers. Silly, no diversity of races heh.

So ponder and wonder why, because we are not all tactician, English majors, or computer wizz's, we build a toon and hope to get him or her to level 40 and enjoy helping our team mates in the Grand event of defending our relic or protecting our character from enemies. When that feeling of goodness in helping comes about we look for the next challenge. It might be from learning from our faults with a new toon or building some crafters to help us along, so in which it might be then we start being the tactician, the English Major, or the computer wizz.

The Battle field needs to be leveled so we all play on a fair battle field in, which then forums like this do not keep popping up. Fair battlefield, no more excuses. period!

Tobias
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Re: ECL 3 races

Post by Tobias »

Willow, My face hurts from reading your most recent post. Whatever you are smoking, drinking or taking, I wantsome! Or wait.. Are you and Tasha related? that would explain alot.

More on topic; RK is incredibly diverse as far as classes and builds go. I play mostly in RK and I enjoy it very much. Its a touch dissapointing knowing that some builds, no matter how much you invest, will always fall short of others in the field. But I build anyway and I enjoy my playtime.

RK is a veritable graveyard most of the day. Minus the few of us who play at random times. The versatility of classes in RK is great for a builders imagination. But paper champions dont always pan out in the field. And that can be disheartening. I'm all about RK getting a new race. But if we don't, no loss. I'll keep showing up and doing what I do.

Ryddwillow
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Re: ECL 3 races

Post by Ryddwillow »

Willow, My face hurts from reading your most recent post. Whatever you are smoking, drinking or taking, I wantsome! Or wait.. Are you and Tasha related? that would explain alot.

More on topic; RK is incredibly diverse as far as classes and builds go. I play mostly in RK and I enjoy it very much. Its a touch dissapointing knowing that some builds, no matter how much you invest, will always fall short of others in the field. But I build anyway and I enjoy my playtime.

RK is a veritable graveyard most of the day. Minus the few of us who play at random times. The versatility of classes in RK is great for a builders imagination. But paper champions dont always pan out in the field. And that can be disheartening. I'm all about RK getting a new race. But if we don't, no loss. I'll keep showing up and doing what I do.
Do you read what everyone else says from rk or from forums? I noticed you joined here in 2010? no wonder why your face hurts. You must be a duel identity person. Good luck on your ventures and hope your face doesn't swell too much. :roll:

and it is a general response with no merit.

And no you do not play everyday or in rk and if you do it is as a relic raider or whatever you do for like 10 mins.

P.S. your last post was from like mar of 2010, com'on MAN everyone is gone except for a few, maybe you have some answer is to why your faction has like 3 ppl playing it? Com'on MAn. Nice video but that was like almost 2 yrs ago, Com'on MAN. Just saying COM'on Man.

Tobias
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Re: ECL 3 races

Post by Tobias »

1) You have no idea how often I play or what I do.

2) My last video was Jan 22 2011 and my most recent post was in the trade thread about a month ago. Now I know it wasn't yesterday, but 2 years? You count nearly as well as you form sentances.

3) I Have 20 posts because I choose not to banter, I use the forums to share ideas (when applicable), and ask questions if I'm unsure. Dont assume I'm new based on post count.

4) My face hurts because trying to make sense of your posts is like chewing on large rocks.

On topic. I wouldn't mind a new race just to change stuff up some. But the biggest problem is lack of people, which not only RK but the entire server faces at times. I dont honestly think a new race would bring old players back. I mean, they will or they wont. One race wont be the difference maker. But everyone likes new things so who knows.

Rufio
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Re: ECL 3 races

Post by Rufio »

MA was the dominant faction only a few months ago. It is pretty natural for activity in each faction to fluctuate. I've noticed a lot of unguilded players on lately though, so start working on those recruitment pitches.
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Elagneros
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Re: ECL 3 races

Post by Elagneros »

Bargeld wrote:That tidbit could even be considered 'on-topic'. <cough>RK diversity<cough>
The real "problem" with RK's diversity isn't the diversity, it's the lack of players. PvP is pretty much a team sport, and all the diversity in the world doesn't help if you're badly outnumbered. Outnumbered is something that depends on the individual player tho...some people can take on multiple PvP opponents at once and still win depending on the builds involved and the skill of the players running the builds.
Rufio wrote:MA was the dominant faction only a few months ago. It is pretty natural for activity in each faction to fluctuate. I've noticed a lot of unguilded players on lately though, so start working on those recruitment pitches.
Yes, I need to recruit some fresh blood. Problem is, I don't know who the multiboxers are and it won't do to recruit someone who's considered a guild enemy.

Hey Willow: Gimme a copy of your log-in list. :lol:
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Alkapwn
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Re: ECL 3 races

Post by Alkapwn »

Funny 2 players have said RK is dead but everytime i login there's at least 6 rk/ao toons on about 3 SL/MA. This has been the trend over the last month. Most likely attributed that alot of RK guild members are Aussie timezones and MA/SL is mostly NorthAm and GrBrit. Too say RK is a ghost town is highly overstated.
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Elagneros
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Re: ECL 3 races

Post by Elagneros »

Yeah, those guys are RR, and they're Australians. So they're on different hours. I sometimes hang around with them when I'm on the same time, but there's the whole time zone difference.
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