regarding dms.....

[Poet]

Well, I see your point Ragefist, but if it is the actual roleplay of the system that the gods or goddesses are trying to simulate when "intervening in our lives" then perhaps one or two of the DMs need a bit of training as to what some of the words in their title mean LOL.

For example: Tyr- God of Justice... from the actions I've seen should be more aptly named after some chaotic evil trickster such as Cyric because this god represents the actions brought forth by that DM. It would be easier to understand if that is the affect that the Devs and DMs are going for.

However, when the God of Justice shows random acts of chaotic intervention towards some, and causes other players hardship in doing so, this makes it rather hard to go along with the Roleplay aspect of the system as suggested and is probably what causes the irritation in the players who are affected. There just needs to be a bit of re-thinking here perhaps.

As Always,
Poet

[KST_HAVOK]

Yes Well said Poet....

I would be all for it if this was a roleplayed reason for all of this..

Heck i would not even care if mabey there was a God on that would randomly help my "group"

In any event as far as the whole lawyer thing goes i dont even mean it in this aspect...

This drow char i have made was my first EVER...

When i asked people where to level EVERY drow on the server sent me a tell about going to go to the wolves.

I just find it Ironic that the foirst time a kst member makes a drow in the same fasion as everyone else it becomes a problem.....

[Metis]

I think some of you are missing a big point here. Without going into specifics TGPO said it perfectly. I also don't think it is to much to ask for players to work with DM's, even if its a grey area and nothing is specifically posted about a certain tactic, even if you disagree or think something is unfair, considering the new content, tweaks, (and yes tons of work still going on behind the scenes) couldn't you just give the benefit of the doubt and stop or move on or whatever is being asked (although I usually use guards to get the point across). If you are doing something or fighting or anything and it seems to be something you shouldn't, is it so bad to take the initiative to stop and ask?

I end with his quote

As a rule of thumb for players, if you think you have found a way to get around or use script or engine limitations to get by. You have more than likely found an exploit level bug. It also means that when you use it mercilessly you are driving the DM team to pulling their hair out while a fix is decided and implented. Exploits do not need declared by DMs, your intelligent folks and are SUPPOSED to be reporting these things instead of abusing them until we can get them fixed.

[Milkman99]

ok. I really have only 2 points that are kinda linked.

1. I have noticed several times a dm get involved in a small groups "game" the last time i believe it was chase and i was on giant mountain in a group. What happened was that all these traps started appearing literally under our feet and i mean by the truckload .

One of my fellow players i could tell was starting to get upset and making comments that someone is trying to kill us etc - i will add the traps were poisons and slows i immediately told this player to relax its ok its a DM just helping us have more fun by making it challenging, from memory we were 18th and treesmashers etc were easy as. i had to leave at the entrance and sent tyr a message of thanks for making the game more fun and interesting, i enjoyed it

see the point is it is so easy and many are quick to jump to the idea that a DM is doing stuff he must hate me! have you ever thought that he is making it a challenge or simply just interesting??

2. The second point is i notice ppl going always to the same spot. Power gamers like some guild members are making new characters and getting to lvl 21 in about 2 days! - they achieve this in 2 ways, A- help from high lvl guild members (raises, scrolls, money, heal potions etc) that most of us dont have) B- almost always there lvling group has a darkness ultra vision combo in it and heads up the mountain till about 9th or 10th then to FD.

Ok so here it is you should not have the money or resources to even get to FD and back many times at lvl 9 - its 24k for a return trip! it is considered an epic area and we all know without the darkness Ultravision combo u dont stand a chance. See i dont want to say u r using an exploit cause u know what its in the game its not a bug that your using like the old days of using ice giant arrows way before you shoulda i mean Drow have darkness! part of the game isnt it? But and many may not care its not in the SPIRIT of the game.

Think about all those ppl who arent in a guild/or dont wanna be man they must get kinda upset to play ther toon for weeks and advance slowly but at the same time see some ppl going from 1st to epic in like 3 days! Can you see how unbalanced it is?? I mean add to all this the fact that the other dude is advancing slowly - finding his own items and gear when he reaches 9th 13th 16th etc while u just whip out yoour mule and its back to FD. THEN you PK him several times lol with a 3 or 4 day old character while he has been working on his for weeks??

The solution here DEVS is simple - implementing it may not be -

is it possible to make the ferry tickets to FD a lvl 13 or 16 whatever only item? - i dont know maybe u cant bye it even until you are the correct lvl or the sign doesnt work for the ferrys to FD until u r the correct lvl? this would work well

Any way i know way to long a post but man its getting WAY to unbalanced on this server and we all can see it.

[KST_HAVOK]

Both Milk Man and Metis have Great points ...... and i see your side perfectly but there is also some things taken in that you should see from the other side...

Example...

The other day we were leveling in FD about 4 of us from levels 4-6....and yes we were useing the darkness trick..

Now when i was on irc i was told it was not an exploit by a DM and by like 15 other players .... then to come in and use this Drow darkness thing i was confronted by you in the manner of a guard in the words "This has gon far enough " type of deall saying that we could suffer some major concenquences..

Now from our perspective a DM just said we were not breaking any rules then another tells us wewre in some danger of punishment is going to generally piss us off.... one DM says one thing then another says something else against it then the wolves learn how to use UV...

Seconedly with milkman and the whole DM thing .... whenever a DM steps in to make our group have more fun we usually suffer item xp loss gold loss or have some retarded ability on us.....

Also I am going to direct this straight at a specific DM

Tyr was on tuesday morning...... as me and Kromix logged in we ALLWAYS check to see what DMs are on to find out if we are in for some screwing around or not....

And of corse Tyr is in.....

So we go level and sure as hell all the wolves learv UV all the Bears too.

Then when we die like 3 times kromix goes to irc to find out what the hell and tyr says "i havent been logged in all morning"

i got extremely pissed off but kromix said to chill.....

so then we log back on and suprise suprise tyr is gone.....

Then reset.....

Then in irc chase says "You have angered tyr " and im loggingin in now....

now lately chase has been a jerk to our guild

Level draining on the MT
Making wolves have UV
Debuffing me in FD......

man isnt this harassament.....

oh wait no its not cause a DM is making it More "fun" for everyone....

The server is only a server if there are people here .....

Funny lately people have been complaining more about the DMs here than anyone else.....

Oh and for all you new people that ight be reading this ..... as lobies .... i know i powergame and its not fair we have a mule ..... so send me a tell in game ill help you out ...

I gave a SL member a FULL set of slave master armor the other day cause he needed it.......

also mabey there should be some rules about "enhancing" peoples fun....

cause personally this servers starting to suclk cause of all the "fun" being tossed aroung....

Ask Zellious he has seen the difference since he has joined kst....

"Man the dms used to be cool untill i had this tag attached to me".... was his quote.....

Even non kst members we party with see this happening...

[lordvan52681]

I wont comment on the subject at hand, too close to a flame war vs DMs for my taste, but I will say that Chase was missquoted. I believe his words were "I logged off 10 minutes ago, how could I do that?"

I have also seen first hand where players cryed DM intervention when tthere wasnt even a DM logged on.

[KST_HAVOK]

yes thanks fer that clarafication ruddash

Tyr did say that

[Poet]

Yes Rudash Tyr did say that in IRC hmm...are we saying that because a DM logs off , all the effects he created on the server go away?

Or is that after the random reset I mentioned in my earlier post...you know.."the cover my tracks" reset that leaves the random lowbie young players hanging in peril..for the sake of adding "FUN" to another group?

It certainly hasn't been the "group's fun" it has been Tyr's.

Justice...my arse.

As Always,
Poet DCN...NOT -KST- but it still happens.

[Milkman99]

YEs well i see both sides of this discussion and i will stay out of the DM - screwing with ya thing cause i wasnt even there lol - i will say i have never had that happen to me and it sounds like it is an issue not to be posted for all to way into it seems for me to be an issue that Havok (perhaps kst in general) should discuss in private with said DM

What i would say is that i really really love this server the ppl who play on it and all the work that is done behind the scenes by both DM and DEV. As i said im my earlier post i kinda see that while Drow have darkness and Ultra vision there can be not many complaints - It is over powered a bit though i mean I made a drow NC cleric and took the healing domain i made 16th in 1 sitting by casting empowered healing spells i killed morsatai and all solo at lvl 6 and from memory i killed the CR 25.0 minotaur lich at 11th or 12th solo

Basically i got bored with it very quickly (no challenge) Is there a way to make the mobs actually attack you more in the darkness? a lot of them like FD wolves just stand there like statues particularly if you use missile wpns from in the darkness - it's kinda lame

Basically with Mules, scrolls, 10k a pop potions and higher lvls willing to help u there is of course very little challenge here or indeed on any server anywhere. I long for the days when i had no idea what i was doing (some will say thats still now lol) but oh the fun the excitment knowing that death was just around the corner and there were not 15 ppl standing buy to come raise u so death itself costs u nothing?

Games are supposed to be fun, but the old saying goes you can please some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time (i think lol) anyway im going backwards im going to make a new character and not take a single item off a mule or another character if i need medium lvl 16 armor im going to go out and scourer the world for it myself Have fun all and i hope this issue is resolved soon for all conserned

[Eldaric]

Wolves, like most canines, have an excellent sence of smell, and brilliant hearing. In WW2 dogs were used to "Sight" machine guns at night - as it was noted that they will "Look" directly at an unseen approaching enemy - and a soldier with a Thompson could aim along the line of the dog's head and fire - usually killing the target (in spite of the fact that the target could not be seen or heard by the soldier).

A "correct" implementation of a wolf would have massive bonuses to listen and spot, blind-fighting, and some sort of partial immunity to any and all forms of darkness - all from keen sences.

Wolves with Ultravision - sounds fair to me. A simple solution to a problem - and it makes logical sence - even in a fantasy setting.

In short - ANYONE who is using Darkness as a "tool" to level characters that would normally not be able to handle the wolves is using an exploit in my opinion. You used it - it was fun while it lasted - now give it up.

And - for the record - giving the wolves Ultravision and making them act like the pack animals that they are sounds "Just" to me - well within "acceptable" limits for a God of Justice.

[Poet]

I need to start out by saying that I really do like the server here and appreciate all the hard work that goes into it. This is evident or I wouldn't be here 8- 10 hours a day, many timesup to 18 hrs. lol

I enjoy almost every player on the server in one aspect or another and I would hate to see any of that end because of something that is an issue with one person.

I would really like to see a bit of compromise or even just some "self analizing" on the part of the DM that has been accused of some of these things.

While the "just" part of it boils down to opinion... one way or another, if there are repeated accusations by more than one party, then there is some reason that this person is being accused.

Perhaps some steps could be taken as a "show of good faith " to say.."Hey it isn't a personal attack on one guild or one faction."

I for one know that if it takes volunteering to DM or monitor these issues to help remedy any problems, I'll be the first one to step up to the plate.

NS4 has becomea sort of second home for me. I just really care about it's well being.

Thanks again to the Devs andDMs and if you need ideas for events that everyone may choose to attend, give me a PM and I'd be glad to help out.

As Always,
Poet

[Okie GET]

i tried to tell you guys weeks ago that some of the DM's here are working for the KGB. by the way my Okie account is still "booted" from the second banning of the same offense of profanity. I have other IP's and CD keys but i dare not raise my head........ some DM's ego would smush me. Are there any DM's with a sense of fun left? or just people throwing their weight around? 10 to 1 TGPO deletes all my posts.

[Death Dealer1]

i know i've said this before somewhere else, but here it goes again...the DM's word is law. do what they say when they want you to do it. don't argue with them, the DM's word is law. that make any sense?

btw...a DM influenced scenario shouldn't result in constant happenings of the same thing. take this as saying if a DM casts UV on a wolf or serveral wolves...the wolves don't just start casting it themselves from then on until a reset...someone has to do the casting for them unless they are scripted with spells and use them.

[Poet]

i know i've said this before somewhere else, but here it goes again...the DM's word is law. do what they say when they want you to do it. don't argue with them, the DM's word is law. that make any sense?

Interesting....I had no intention of doing otherwise, nor have I. I was merely suggesting a little less antagonizing.

Poet,

[Nemesis Revised]

what are you guys driving at with so many words?

just try to find a compromise with the dm regarding the scripting issue. if you dont cooperate, then of course it will be a rough ride.