Wizard strategy guide

Lework · Post by **Lework** » Thu May 05, 2005 8:57 pm

A high ac is doable without armor, however i find the immunities and resists due to a shield worth it.

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Thu May 05, 2005 9:19 pm

When it all comes down to it though the only way a mage can effectively do anything to a properly built warrior is by using spells that don't require a saving throw.

r.dressel · Post by **r.dressel** » Fri May 06, 2005 12:34 am

Lework wrote:A high ac is doable without armor, however i find the immunities and resists due to a shield worth it.

I agree that is def. something to consider.... a possible way around still spell is to accept the 5% fizzle factor on small shields and take the feat. I did it with my gimped mage and it never got me killed...and i am considering doing it with one of my other mages depending on how hard the new badguys hit... :roll:

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Fri May 06, 2005 1:26 am

Those small shields will make your Premonition and Greater Stoneskin last a lot longer for sure.
5% is totally worth it.

Think I've mentioned that before somewhere...

r.dressel · Post by **r.dressel** » Fri May 06, 2005 5:36 am

You did Jester.. here is the quote..

"Also carry 3 shields, as any class. Even as a wizard wearing a shield is a great idea because it let's you get damage resistance and immunity to any physical damage type for a measely 5% spell failure chance. (Use small shields)"

imom411 · Post by **imom411** » Fri May 06, 2005 11:49 am

from r.dressel:

I guess if you consider 54 a low AC then yes my 24wiz/1Monk is gimped

I have very little idea as to how AC actually works, but I must honestly say that I have no clue how you get such high AC, or really, how any class does. Here are the things I know about that can raise AC for a mage:

Robes: maximum in NS4 is +3 to AC (deflection, I think?)
Shield: if that's your cuppa tea
Boots: +4 or +5 or so Natural (?)
Mage armor/Epic: +1 or +50 to each kind
Dodge: +1 AC against one opponent
Shadow shield: no one uses it because it's gimped
(Imp.) Expertise: biggest waste in NS4 as you have to be in combat to use it, and as soon as you cast a spell you go out of expertise mode
Small wisdom bonus if you're using a monk.

I know you don't want to share all your secrets, but what in heck am I missing?

Post by **Netrom.dk** » Fri May 06, 2005 12:07 pm

5 from tumble (one of the skills from the monk level i assume)

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Fri May 06, 2005 12:28 pm

There are roughly 8 types of AC:
Base
Dex
Dodge
Natural
Deflection
Armor
Shield
Class Based (I think this uses a type of natural AC that stacks with normal natural AC)

Base AC is always 10.
Dex AC is stackable from multiple sources. Uses the Dex mod, if you have a negative dex mod you will lose AC.
Dodge AC is stackable from multiple sources.
Natural AC uses the highest single natural AC value (Barkskin and Amulets are usually the highest single sources).
Deflection AC uses the highest single deflection AC value (Cloaks, Rings, Helmets, and Weapons all use deflection AC) Helmets and Cloaks are usually the highest single sources of deflection AC.
Armor AC is from the Armor or clothing you wear and these are the only sources for this AC except maybe Mage Armor spell (which gives +1 ac but won't stack with any other sources of bonus armor AC.)
Shield AC is from Shields only, nothing else gives this bonus.
Class Based AC is usually gained by taking Pale Master or Red Dragon Disciple.

imom411 · Post by **imom411** » Fri May 06, 2005 12:38 pm

Thanks for the explanation, JesterOI.

Still, some people say stuff like, this build will have a bajillion AC naked. I know that frequently the highest AC build would be a monk in dragon shape, but how would a caster not using this get remotely that high? Especially if there's no Armor AC from robes and they're not carrying a shield or just carrying a small shield for +1 shield AC?

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Fri May 06, 2005 12:58 pm

I could easily see having 35 ac naked, non-buffed, non-monk.

With Level 16 gear that would be 52 AC easy.

45 With naked/non-buffed monk
With level 16 gear: 61AC

Realise that monks get AC just for being a certain level as well.
At level 20 it's +4, don't think it increases in epic levels.

Donan · Post by **Donan** » Fri May 06, 2005 1:03 pm

Tumble tumble tumble, at 22 +5, an elf can start with 20 dex (keep takin dex at lvl)going non monk so that’s +12 ac right there..throw in a monk lvl and the wis kicks in also

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Fri May 06, 2005 1:19 pm

Tumble works by the amount of base (real) skill points in it.
If you keep tumble maxed you get:
1ac at level 2 (5 skill points)
2 ac at level 7 (10 skill points)
3 ac at level 12 (15 skill points)
4 ac at level 17 (20 skill points)
5 ac at level 22 (25 skill points)
6 ac at level 27 (30 skill points)
7 ac at level 32 (35 skill points)
8 ac at level 37 (40 skill points)
(You should have 3 spare skill points at level 40 level up since you don't need to totally max tumble at 43)

Always thought spellcraft worked like that for adding saves, but it appears that the modified spellcraft amount is used, all the better for non-casters.

imom411 · Post by **imom411** » Fri May 06, 2005 1:28 pm

Yeah, I did forget about tumble.

Still, let's just figure a rogue at level 25. Has 28 tumble for +5 AC. Starting dex is 20, and if we take it at every opportunity (leaving aside Great Dex for now) that's 26, with a modifier of +8. Since they have uncanny dodge, they'll keep that +8 even when flatfooted. Adding this to base AC of 10 we get 23 AC naked.

At level 40, tumble could be at 43 (though I see no reason to raise it above 40) you would get +8 to AC. We've raised dex 10 times to 30, with a modifier of +10. This translates to a naked AC of 28 without great dex, armor skin, or dodge.

This is all for a build that focuses on dex and tumble. What am I missing?

JesterOI · Post by **JesterOI** » Fri May 06, 2005 1:42 pm

You have 28
You can get +6 dex from Great Dex.
So that would be 31 AC
+ Halfling Size AC = 32 AC
+ Armor Skin = 34 AC
+ Dodge Feat = 35 AC

imom411 · Post by **imom411** » Fri May 06, 2005 2:09 pm

OK, so if you REALLY tried hard with just the right setup, you could have 35 AC at level 40. But, to bring this back to where it started, how the heck do casters get that high, and how would heavy-armor wearers get there? It seems like the only major (non-item) AC boost that casters are going to get is from Epic Mage Armor. Add to this a couple measly AC points from dex, which would disappear whenever casting if the PC doesn't have Uncanny Dodge. Classes without dex through the roof won't be taking great dex anyway.