Small Rant - Death spells

[Stryder Blade]

You're justg not playing your chars correctly. Why don't you try doing a tank with some shadow dancing PrC? (For example a ranger Shadow dancer) As of right now, HiPS can take out casters with no problem, how do I know? Okie Timberlake almost killed me 3-4 times using HiPS, however neither of us killed each other.

HIPs would be fine, but that's not what I was getting at. Usually, when mage uses death on me, I never even see it coming. Example: Melee with common creatures, just finished fight, up walks a mage (invisible mind you), casts death. I die! Mage laughs, goes about his business. I respawn, time to get back to lvl'ing and adventuring.

BTW, another of my originals points has not been talked about. Losing xp when PK'd. Can this be fixed? I hear it has something to do with dieing on one server and being bound to another. It doesn't always happen, but I'd say about 50% of the time it does. Example: ABOVE

Binded in Avendell, PK'd on Mountain Trail. Respawn in Avendell, lose xp and gp as if killed by NPC rather than PC. This gets real expensive real fast when higher lvl players keep smoking lower to mid range players. I've also notice this happens when killed by a PC's summons.

Thanks,
Stryder Blade

[Qui]

In my experience losing exp on pk is no longer a problem, believe me, i pvp alot and die on occasion and when i do even across servers i have suffered no exp loss, now.. this might be a problem with being a planar touched race which suffer exp bonuses on being rezzed also...
Any info on this Devs?

[IcemanXV]

WM is a reflex save class, y'know.

Bingo. I started with 16 CON actually. I also just started the beta test myself so I don't exactly have the best items around. Even a 20 fort means nothing if an implosion is 30+DC. Thats a 50/50 chance of dying/living. Not to mention autofail is still on.

I wasn't complaining. I just think some DCs need to be checked and more in relation to PC saves. I don't think that its appropriate that multiclassing is the only way to avoid this stuff.

[Hieroneus Maxim]

I have a tanked character that is practically built around having good saves. Death spells (pretty much any spell with a save for that matter) are not a problem for this character. However, I don't think every tank should have to take CoT (or paladin) and monk to get good saves.

When I build tank characters, I realize the strong need to have good saves because all those HP don't matter when you fail vs. a death spell. I have some decent tank builds, but the problem is that some of the multiclassing that I have to do for the good saves really restricts my character build. If you want something that just plays as a straight up fighter, it isn't too bad.

I wish spellcraft was a class skill for everyone. I envision a fighter taking spellcraft as learning about your enemy so that you can fight them better.

[Pancakes]

Yea even if you have improved knockdown you cant knock down a wizard or cleric because their invisible. And its even a bigger problem because they can totally regain ALL Their spells in 10 seconds. So its pretty much impossible for a fighter to take on a cleric. Ive tried dueling a challenging cleric tons of times. never won. And its not cause i suck because i can kill anything but spellcasters

[Qui]

There are daggers laying around with upwards of 11 casts of true seeing, i have some, mill those (keep killing critters int he area they drop, monks i think) and hot key those.. Equip dagger, cast true seeing, equip real weapon, now u see invised mages... also.. pick up every thing of blue powder u find.. now u are invised and true seeing when not fighting.. and trust me, knocking down mages DOES destroy them..

[AndrewCarr]

My saves are:

~22 fort
~24 reflex
13 will.

14 will when bard song is on. 23 ranger/ 3 bard.

Now, one easy easy way to make up for the supposed "If i don't have 65535 in will saves i die instantly all the tiem..." is to take the + will save feats. Fighters get tons of feats alrdy, why not take two and get +6 to will saves? That, or take your fort even higher(why oh why is it so low?) and get +6 to that.

Or multiclass to bard, get use magic device, tumble, and spellcraft. There's a great class to dump skill pts into.

And invisibility isn't much of a problem if you have decent listen/spot(i think it's spot, maybe it's search tho for hidden creatures).
So with this you can see most ppl that are invis'ing around, which is nice. And like the previous poster mentioned, the see invis daggers are pretty common, and true seeing helms(10x per helm) are on avendell merchants.


So I think that solves the crappy saves problem, and the inability to see enemies problem.

And if not, take a lvl of ranger, use the ranger amulets off merchants, and mem 3 invis purges per day
And then take monk or CoT lvls...

[dordon]

To some extent I agree with your point: not all builds are viable for PvP. Melee builds are completely viable, but you have to build them correctly. Here's a few tips:

1.) You have to take the feats to pump up your fort save. With the HotU feats, you can get +4 to your save with Strong Soul and Great Fortitude.
2.) Melee chars don't mean you don't use magic. You'll probably have to get some Use Magic Device to be competitive against a mage or cleric, if nothing else to be able to get see invis and dispel magic from scrolls.
3.) For every 5 ranks in Spellcraft, you get a +1 save vs. spells
4.) NS has some very nice subraces with decent spell resist and save bonuses.

I'm not going to give away all the good tricks, but that will get you a fort save over 30 at level 20 if you're careful.

[deathdearler1]

dump points into listen, u'll find the invis ppl everytime. subraces with SR are very nice, i think i figured a drow monk would have SR of about 90 or so by lvl 40. this means u can't be touched with spells except for autofail. also i've had a cleric since b4 they were cool, trust me, he loses pvp. one final thing, if u haven't noticed yet alot of ppl don't use different weapons. lots of items give resist or immune to certain types of damage, if u switch up weapons u'll find something they aren't resistant to and that really hurts.

[DrakhanValane]

Racial and monk SR don't stack.

[JesterOI]

Listen let's you see invis people, but they still get 50% conceal.

[TangleRED]

still rogues are completly screwed without the nifty items...

we need shops that sell all the magic sdtyle items fond on corpses... no one wil part with them..
where are the rings of invis

I mean .. at least give us standed NWN game set Items..
let us choose btween those and the nes in the mod..

your completely killing the rogue class. Use magic device is pointless with no items being class restricted. pickpocketing has been nerfed, traps are pointless. the only thing we're good for is backstabs and opening locks..


the magic stores need to sell to us and to bards..

heck why are ANY stores restrictive? where are the pure capitolists?

make money useful for something other then heal pots
put some nice expensive Items out there that can't be taken from some leve 16 muckety mucjk, they hae to be bought,, heck they have to be comissioned by a good smith

and how about letting mages make magic weapons from crafted weapons?

seriously the rogue class is hindered terribly by lack of immunities.. its all will saves and fort saves... we need a feat that makes every spell a dex save.. maybe require dex of 23+ but something about being so quick casters can't lock on to us..

[IcemanXV]

still rogues are completly screwed without the nifty items...

we need shops that sell all the magic sdtyle items fond on corpses... no one wil part with them..
where are the rings of invis

I mean .. at least give us standed NWN game set Items..
let us choose btween those and the nes in the mod..

your completely killing the rogue class. Use magic device is pointless with no items being class restricted. pickpocketing has been nerfed, traps are pointless. the only thing we're good for is backstabs and opening locks..


the magic stores need to sell to us and to bards..

heck why are ANY stores restrictive? where are the pure capitolists?

make money useful for something other then heal pots
put some nice expensive Items out there that can't be taken from some leve 16 muckety mucjk, they hae to be bought,, heck they have to be comissioned by a good smith

and how about letting mages make magic weapons from crafted weapons?

seriously the rogue class is hindered terribly by lack of immunities.. its all will saves and fort saves... we need a feat that makes every spell a dex save.. maybe require dex of 23+ but something about being so quick casters can't lock on to us..

Actually You're pretty much set vs druids and air domain clerics. Call lightning/chain lightning is some of their best ammo. In a druid's case, it is 90% of their ammo, minus ice storm.

UMD is crazy useful. Spell scrolls are where it's at. Heck, being able to use REZ scrolls alone makes it worth its weight in gold. Too often in fights, raise is useless, even if someone chugs a potion, due to the loverly AOO on potion drink.

Every spell a dex save? Are you insane? Take improved evasion and you're bullet proof versus mages? FAT CHANCE! Rogues are not invincible. Never were, never will be. Rogues have low defense. Fighters have crappy will saves. We all have our vices. It's not all candyland everywhere as you may think.

[Midori]

What I don't want to see is everyone and their brother running around with True Seeing helms.

And besides, if the caster is in greater sanctuary, can't they not be targeted? Only hit with AoE attack and such? I've not actually played online since before the expansions so I'm not 100% sure on that.

[Terminal Insanity]

last time i checked, death spells where fort saves.
i know for a fact WoB and FoD are, and im prety soure Power Word Kill is also. That other spell... Phantasmal Killer i think its called? you must make a will save, and then if you fail that, you have to make ANOTHER fort save

Any fighter should have high fort saves... more con = more fort. Plus theres TONS of items that push up your Death and your fort saves.


"oh no! a mage has the chance to instantly kill me if im lower level or forgot that my con mattered!! what ever will i do! my 200hp 4 times per round doesnt do nearly enough damage... all these casters have such uber HP(117hp lvl 19) and AC(30 buffed), how will they ever be destroyed!! and to top it all off... i couldent possibly get some death magic immunity potions from a random mob, cleric, or even a *gasp* friendly caster!
GIMP THEM ALL! muhaha! if i cant make a proper char or learn how to defend myself, ill get the devs to do it for me!"