PK Harassment or the 3 PK rule.

[Chernobyl_Glow]

Glow - I know I am not a rule maker, but the I have always interpreted your scenarios as being a defender until the stolen relic is capped. As an example, I was raiding with Gem in NC and had tapped their cradle, moments later, an NC raider tapped the SL cradle. I logged out Gem at the NC cradle and quickly logged Laufer to 'defend' back in menzo. I ended up chasing the thief all the way back to the NC cradle room, but as soon as that thief capped the relic, I considered myself a raider, so I logged laufer out right there and switched back to Gem, my 'raiding' toon.

This should be the most extreme example, and I consider it legal. I consider myself a defender until the relic is capped in an enemy faction... Hopefully a DM can confirm this scenario.

Yah. I agree. That's kind of the way I've always felt too and exactly why I asked. Seems like Burra also felt that way. I don't think its a big deal either way. Just need clarification and it sounds like she's working on it. Cool.

I guess its probably only an issue if we're both raiding at the same time. I'm defending, as you raid but you spring one. I log back on to my raider, "hey this is my raider. i've only been raiding with one toon" and beat you back to your cradle and ambush you. I prolly should only be allowed to ambush you like that if I have NOT been on a toon defending.

- Glow -

[Amoenotep]

ok....read through the commandments post. TGPO has a really good explanation and basic outline of the pk/pvp rules.....if you have very specific questions of things not covered, i'll clear them up.


read them and i'll bet you most of your questions just inside this thread will be answered.

[MLoki]

VI - Thou shalt not relog any character during a relic raid, except to relog a defender character, unless a period of 30 minutes has passed since your last attempt with your original character. This includes any character involved in the transportation of relics.

I guess I haven't reread these recently but if you take this word for word NOBODY can log another character during a raid unless they do so to defend and anybody transporting a relic may log off to defend but can't log back in for 30 minutes?

[Amoenotep]

correct MLoki....raiding is an offensive act. you cannot relog to be offensive you can only relog in defense of your own factions relic.

[Ajantis.]

Can you log on a defender (shadow dancer) and get killed, realize this is a poor choice for defense, and log another chacter (paladin) and continue to defend with paladin?

[Bargeld]

That clarifies it for me, TY. Relogging is a one-way street... once you give up your initial raid, you can't just 'go back to what you were doing.'

In my scenario, can I raid with Laufer after chasing the relic to the NC cradle? No lie, I was still ontop of and attacking the NC toon all the way to the last 2 feet of the cradle. I killed him right after too! But I rationalized that I had just tapped the cradle 5 minutes prior with a different toon, so it was off limits to tap it with Lauf. At this point, have I given up any raiding for 30 mins with any toon?

[Amoenotep]

umm...yeah..thats the whole idea behind being able to defend with any char you possess...did you guys even read this stuff

[Korr]

Yes, any relogging goes for defending, as long as you relog from your faction. My guess would be so that when someone pulls a relic out of ANY factions you cant relog your toon in avendell to "run back to your faction" as you just HAPPEN to meet that raider on their way out. This gives a serious advantage to the person defending because A) You waste the raiders resources while they are in your city, likely not able to get a rest B) you finish off said raider with a new fresh toon because you keep say your pure fighter in ave, just a few steps or dragon ride from cutting off any raiding heading home. Essentially you get 2 chances to beat 1 person who ALREADY got away from 1 of your toons. Whereas if you were to meet this person IN your city you beat 1 toon with 2 toons in 1 spot.

My question would be, since spawn points are now open PvP. Would it be considered illegal for a raiding party of 10 people to go into SL, 6 people go into the cradle room clear it and ding up the room. The other 4 people park inside the menzo barracks. . . to kill any would-be defenders. Can these 4 people in the barracks kill the defenders an infinite amount of times, since it is DIRECTLY related to the raiding of SL (as I would guess most SL have some members parked inside their relic rooms to resort to). I personally have always wanted to do this, but was unsure of the legality of it. . . and I caught enough DM wrath when I was around ';)

[Amoenotep]

spawn points were made open pvp back when LA was still playable...so its been there a while.


if you notice in my post for it i state use common sense. NO you cannot just stand there and kill the defenders without end...your only allowed a tap or 2 while passing by..NO you cannot camp the bind point. hit and run is all your allowed.

[Bargeld]

Wow I disagree 100% with your first paragraph, Korr. I understood the rule to allow you to relog any toon 'from the same faction'. Meaning their facion choice is the same... Any toons that choose the same faction on char creation are eligable choices for defense. Based on your 'additional' interpretation, not only do they have to be OF the same faction, they have to be physically located within those faction areas? No way! What if all I had was a lvl 37 and a lvl 30 and I was playing the lvl 30 and wanted to help defend with the 37... but I parked him at dorfs. So now I can't defend unless I run my 30 back?

And besides, everyone does that, it's called luck and strategy, or just raw amount of toons. I'd be surprised if you didn't have a 35+ toon parked at every boat and every dragon Me, I have to be lucky to have 1) parked a toon in a helpful spot and 2) remember who and where that was.

[Amoenotep]

i can log in to defend from anywhere in ns4...as long as i'm from that faction. i just can't log into the relic room (because its scripted ) just because they go the easy way and you find them there...doesn't mean its the only way for them to go.

[MLoki]

So you can relog to defend, intercept or chase a toon transporting a relic all the way back to their cradle with a relogged "Defender" and if you were already raiding with a different toon when you relog then you may not tap a cradle or pick up a relic with any toon for 30 minutes after your most recent raid attempt? Is this correct?

[Amoenotep]

once you travel from your city, your in offensive mode. just because they took your relic doesn't mean your still defending. they made it out of your city...your defense sucked.


so..you can relog and intercept all the way to their city...yes
you can not relog again unless you are directly relogging to your home factions defense.
if you relog for your factions defense and end up being offensive after that....you can not continue your course of action to take the relic....until the allotted time has passed.
you can assist your team mates, but you can't directly take relics.

[Korr]

Ok so Kims statement in the original post is completely wrong, or not worded well between raiding and defending (ie, you can log a toon in at MA to stop the raider, you ust cant touch the relic). I too thought I could hold all my toons in ave, my statement was based off kims "You can only relog defenders within city limits".

Tep, your statement seems to suggest that I can bring a level 20 to defend a relic cradle. . . die 3 times. Then the other players are FORCED to let me kill them or be in violation of the 3 limit PK rule.

What about this. . . a more applicable tactic (since 10 people is a HUGE raiding party). We have 6 people, 3 go into the relic cradle right off. . . 3 stay in the spawn point. The three in the cradle get their relics. . . and we swap out. Seems like a perfectly legit tactic to use. Stop enemies in their tracks, get all the relics. . . good to go. Why would in a very war-like situation would we allow people to rest to regain their power when we can nullify them. Thats like TDing a 30 RDD and saying "you cant go dragon form". Nothing is stopping the defenders from logging on pure fighters, pure barbarians, fighter/rogue/wm, and an endless amount of other options available that dont need rest. They dont have those builds? Tough luck!!!

[Amoenotep]

i can kill you 500 times if i'm raiding your town and you try to defend it and fail. i can kill you 500 times if i stay in the same zone anywhere in the mod and you keep coming back to me. i can kill you 500 times if you have that many chars in that faction constantly relogging them to defend your city.


i can't hunt you down and run pk circuits around the mod doing relentless kills. i can't relog a raider because i'm suddenly done defending once you've gotten away. i can't keep you locked down in the bind point because the staff chose to make it a non equation for sissy players that like to run and hide at the shard just to regain their power back so they can't be killed.


and korr, i'm not sure where your seeing if you get killed 3 times defending then its against the pk rule....if i'm defending i get free reign to constantly find whatever build suits my need to kill you...you chose your attacker and your stuck with it.....................why am i even explaining rules that have been in effect for years?