Shifter nerf

[mgrjebbo]

This isnt just going to happen to shifters. Dont you guys see a trend. Its happening to everything. The power gauge is completely changing on the server. You cant guage your build by pre 1.69 standards. Soon enough 43 ab will be high. Just wait until everything is nerfed a bit.

I hope this is the plan anyway because its a great one, just my guess though.

[Daltian]

This isnt just going to happen to shifters. Dont you guys see a trend. Its happening to everything. The power gauge is completely changing on the server. You cant guage your build by pre 1.69 standards. Soon enough 43 ab will be high. Just wait until everything is nerfed a bit.

I hope this is the plan anyway because its a great one, just my guess though.

How is 43 ab supposed to be high? Doesn't look like they will take away 20 ab and 20 ac from all other classes, does it? 43 ab is simply very low. And for melee class, which shifter is, that can only be funny, nothing else.

[neil420]

So where do you get the idea that Shifter is a melee class? It's my interpretation that Shifter is a cast-on-the-fly change-to-whatever-form-is-needed-at-the-time class. Maybe try diversity instead of just one form, you might end up with the Shifter you want.

[Daltian]

So where do you get the idea that Shifter is a melee class? It's my interpretation that Shifter is a cast-on-the-fly change-to-whatever-form-is-needed-at-the-time class. Maybe try diversity instead of just one form, you might end up with the Shifter you want.

You obviously never played shifter, right? When you change to that form you say its needed. What are you gonna do to enemy? Annoy them to death. You need to do some kind of damage and only melee is possible. You can't cast shifted. So, you cant cast and have 43 ab. Damn, you are right, we are not melee. Actually we are the only class that isn't either melee or caster. We are nothing.


Also you cant just change forms as fast as you say, it takes 2 rounds, during which you are flatfooted, 40 ac, no discipline and standing in one place. Melee will kd/crit/sneak you before you change. Wizard will cast bigsby (even before you start shifting), and you'll be stunned. Cleric will implode you or melee you during that time.

[mgrjebbo]

Anyway how do you know they wont take 20ab from all the other classes?

They will probley scale it with level or something now anyway. Otherwise the class wont work as an epic anything. Unless you dont go pure Shifter Druid, which most folks do. I dont understand myself how anyone can say dont build 8/8/8/8/8/3/3/7 when they obviously have never built a shifter. You need max wisdom for dragon form and if you want it without a book you need to take both a sub race and put epic feats into great wisdom.

If you want any other form to be good you need to put points in skills/feats/spell focuss ect.

Now i understand that a person shouldnt be able to have a 18 int and an 18 wis and the rest stats 6 and be able to rule the server and i think that they do need to be toned down a bit, however i am sure this isnt where it will stay as it is pretty rough lol.

So calm yourself and offer to do some testing for them. Posting on the boards will only get you so far anyway. Besides after the hole deep gnome stunt karma is probley having alittle to do with this. This shall be refered to hence forth as Gnome Gate.

[Daltian]

How can you take 20 ab from straight melee classes like fighter? They get ab from few feats, standard ab fighter progression and strenght + weapon. Now you can't really affect any of those can you?

[mgrjebbo]

Constructive critisim fella. Keep that in mind. Anything else usualy gets ignored.

And you can do alot of things to alot of classes. No problem.

[Fezz]

ok, Yes i too may seem a bit negative. So ill try and stop that - just that i was the second person to get to 40 and now my toon kinda blows.

I did read the change log, and it says these stats are not final, so yes there will be changes to some things, but how much if any will the forms be given back ? How long is all of this going to take to iron out ?

As far as the 8 8 8 18 16 8 is concerned - i have never EVER had those stats on any of my shifters. Risen Lord uses YOUR dex so mine had 19 wisdom for 9th slots and 40+ dex with 14 INT. As well as this i had just started as i indicated in another thread a shifter that was going to finish with 30 wis and 26dex and all the epic feat shapes and blinding speed - this one had 12 int. blinding speed on dragon and golem etc would of been nice.

Some of the comments about shifters are very very negative and not thought out and simply untrue - like that starting stats thing.

As far as me pushing for them to close the shifter class, its actually not because im really angry and beeing irational. Its because all the time that has, is and will be spent on shifters could in my opinion be better spent else where - like AO jobs:P

Lastly Arcane anything dosent fit with the circle reaver there a bit like NC and against arcane magic, hence no wizards. I thought SD or Weaponmaster because TC as a faction cna play either and its not against the factions Ethos.

[Daltian]

Constructive critisim fella. Keep that in mind. Anything else usualy gets ignored.

And you can do alot of things to alot of classes. No problem.

I know. But right now my char has 53 ac and 42 or 43 ab. At lvl 35. With no way to get up up except with 5 lvl ups and that will give me 2 ab. And I am a melee char. What can I do with it? Build a new char. I am doing that.

But another problem is that people are leaving TC because of this change. It really is sad. We were insignificant faction for quite some time and then shifter got boosted and TC prospered. Right now, after the wipe, we weren't dominating the server. Not even close to that. Shifter was overpowered in risen lord shape, due to low availability of high end items and to people not knowing our weakness in PvP. Some nerf was obvious, even fair. But destroying entire class was really harsh.

I am just asking, please. Make a shifter at least half decent so that out faction remains alive.

[LinuxPup]

Its a work in progress... wait a few weeks before you complain more.

[Daltian]

Besides after the hole deep gnome stunt karma is probley having alittle to do with this. This shall be refered to hence forth as Gnome Gate.

What deep gnome stunt? Are you accusing me again that I changed my race when I got my toon releveled? It has been cleared that I releveled same char as the one I had previously to job bug. What is your problem, something personal against me?

[Daltian]

Allowing that character to change from and ecl 0 lvl 30+ to an ecl 3 lvl 30+ is totaly your buisness.

Same subrace on both Fezz and Daltian's characters. Checked the DB.

And yet again you use same wrong accusation in response to my post!

[mgrjebbo]

The one i was talking about was cleared up and i am pretty sure that person knows i was talking about them. Besides i was just trying to bring alittle light to this serisouly dark thread.

Edit- Lighten up lol that comment sure didnt require 2 replys....

[Fezz]

Alright, lets not get this thread locked by people accusing others of things already cleared up by a dev/dm. Greebo let it go you wanted horses gone, well they are. You said on shout for me to take my overpowered shifter build somewhere else, well no need for that now.

Plz lets hear from Loki and linux in here, and use it to offer "feedback" as loki put it

On that note, you guys need to take a look at the elemental wpns, they drop into your pack because they are not in the DB and then you can transfer them to other toons and stuff.

[Lokey]

I have a something in mind that will destroy most of the rest of the high level characters on the server. Two lines of code and suddenly shifters won't look nerfed

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There's 35 shifter form versions, 8 elemental forms, 10 animal forms and 3 dragons using approximately 100 creature items and weapons, about 2000 lines of script and 56 lines of polymorph.2da. It's not all going to get balanced in the few hours I took to make a decent starting point.

Wymlings aren't going to scale. Use them when you get them, that's all. Probably the same for the animal shapes. They'll merge all your gear though.

Stuff that does scale needs to be more item based. Working on that, but it's tricky. Accepting that not all forms will be decent on a given character, when you can have a 25 point difference in dex on the shapeshifter that carries over...have some ideas, need to think about more.

Shifters are melee, even the most creative use of the 3 granted ability slots aren't going to change that, and those need a lot of scripting support and bug testing that won't happen. It will continue to utterly suck if you get killed while polymorphed, thank Bio for that.

I'll check on the elder elemental shape items later. They'll be useable by the morning reset. That they bounce to your inventory is a little annoying, but you won't be able to use or sell them anyway.

I disabled damage and attack bonus copying from gauntlets. Damage comes strictly from what's in your weapon hand now... I have something that could do it from glove to weapon, just remember gaunts don't have enhancement bonus in ns4.