NS4 going PvM only?

[Rufio]

The loss of gamespy troubles me more than anything in this thread

[Shadowalker]

The loss of gamespy troubles me more than anything in this thread

You speak the truth brother, who cares of politics, personalities, or perspectives if the world ceases to populate.

If gamespy cant be the connection to new converts, then we must collect em ourselves. Spread the NS4 buzz to all associates, real life and virtual, use that Face Folder, My Spruce or Tweeker, even Uboob could help. If it brings us souls to save or corrupt, dependaing on your perspective, then let the Blugs fly.

[Lokey]

In game or web nwn1 & 2 auth and matchmaking are figured out, but there's still stuff to do. Waiting to see what the least painless method for you all to dump gamespy is.

[Hyk]

Hello friends!

Good to see everyone is staying civil and open minded as usual!

I tend not to read this forum as the amount of whining and misinformation posted here makes my eyes bleed, but NS is my home, and since there's some changes coming, I figured I would invest three minutes to make some suggestions.


1. Give all factions the same job bonuses.

As much as I hate this idea, it may be the only solution to the constant complaining. We don't need our devs spending half of their time tweaking something so minor, only to have people endlessly complain about the results. After having played here for a few years, does anyone really believe that its possible to solve the job token stability issue? I think not.

Get rid of the current bonuses, give us some that everyone can enjoy (something that tones down stunning fist comes to mind), and lets close the chapter on this nonsense.


2. Make relics give MORE bonuses (xp/gold for capping?).

This would make more people get involved in the relic game, especially players without level 40 characters or those who have nothing but endgame characters.

I can't think of a better PvP incentive, than actually rewarding players for doing it. New players will raid to get xp/gold on top of the xp bonus, and old players will log on to have some fun and push back the swarms. Heck, if the prize is worth the trouble, level 39 players who play during slower times of the day will even have something to do rather then grinding DE to get xp.


3. Better rule enforcement.

Everyone has become lazy reporting violations. Sometimes I log on and I hear people complaining that someone did this or that, and I ask "Did you press the screenshot button on your keyboard, then send a pm to mining on the forum about it? No? Then it didn't happen, so please stop complaining about it." If there is so much terrible play, with so many people breaking the rules, lets fix it instead of spamming shout and endlessly whining on the forum.

It has to be mentioned here however, that the DMs have been somewhat lax in this department as well. I have at one point submitted a screenshot of someone deliberately dropping a relic in an area that is infamous for deliberate bugging, and the only reaction was "oh yeah, we have to work on the relics system". This is unacceptable. If we go through the trouble of submitting screenshots to report something, DMs need to be more assertive towards the rule benders.


4. More constructive feedback.

Writing a novel about how you and all your friends will leave the server if something doesn't get changed (which most of us have been guilty of at some point or another) is a complete waste of everybody's time. Lets try to stay a bit more civil, ESPECIALLY when someone makes a suggestion that you are unhappy with.

It seems like most of the suggestions on this forum are so riddled with personal attacks, that people are too busy defending themselves or their clan-mates to even remember what the proposed change was.


TL;DR version: Get rid of unique job bonuses because people will whine endlessly about them no matter how much time devs invest. Make relics give more bonuses so more people get involved in PvP. Do a better job reporting people who break the rules. Treat the people you play with with a little more respect.

Hyk

[Nocturne]

Did you guys seriously delete Ogamis last post? The guy makes damn good points all around and it gets deleted? Thats pure BS imo.

[Shadowalker]

Did you guys seriously delete Ogamis last post? The guy makes damn good points all around and it gets deleted? Thats pure BS imo.

Ogami deleted it themself, is my understanding. I was in conversation in Aetheria with them during the posting.

[Monkey]

Good thoughts, Hyk. Thanks for sharing.

Personally I like the different feel of each faction. It adds a lot of variety and challenge to the game and job items complement that. In a nutshell:

AO = Powerful melee builds. All buffing classes available in support. Job items and bonuses support melee builds.
RK = Sturdy Tanks. All buffing classes available in support. Job item and bonuses boost tanking ability.
MA = Mages, either caster or summoner. PM tanks in support of casters. Job items protect fragile casters.
SL = Evil Sneaks and Assassins, along with pesky Monk AAs. Barbarians and buffing classes available in support. Job and bonuses support assassins.
TC = Speed, stealth, creativity and skill. Countless shifter builds available. Job items and bonuses are great for monks, divine casters and dexers (but not shifters).
NC = Powerful, complicated melee builds. Awesome buffing builds in support, but no mages or rogues. Ideal for veteran players because the short-duration divine buffs can be hard for newbies to manage in a heated battle. Only the Spot token is really worth having, and only on CoTs or Rangers. The best NC builds are dexers and that isn't supported with job bonuses or items.

One thing that really frustrates me is how many players lock themselves into playing just the two factions of their alliance. There's so much more to this server that's worth exploring and conquering. Veteran players should be building in all factions and working together cross-faction in high level PvM. Epic runs should be happening every night, instead of just Wednesdays. (... and no... I don't consider pumping and grinding Sabar's to be an epic run.)

[Korr]

Epic runs should be happening every night, instead of just Wednesdays. (... and no... I don't consider pumping and grinding Sabar's to be an epic run.)

The Beach was the epic run up there!!!

[Ajantis.]

NS4 going PvM only Wednesday 8:00 PM EST Dec 19. lvl 36-40 Send tell for details!

[Korr]

NS4 going PvM only Wednesday 8:00 PM EST Dec 19. lvl 36-40 Send tell for details!

Ive never seen a better invitation to go PK on an epic run!

[mining]

NS4 going PvM only Wednesday 8:00 PM EST Dec 19. lvl 36-40 Send tell for details!

[Ogami]

Did you guys seriously delete Ogamis last post? The guy makes damn good points all around and it gets deleted? Thats pure BS imo.

I deleted it, I can re post it but what is gonna change, game spy is down and the crying is not helping server to populate and I didn't want to make this thread grow to 10 pages (@@) but since we are already here:

"
Tep is right, the GameSpy cut is a definitive thing. And the game is pretty old, there are many newer games around.

But I have to disagree to those 2 forum warriors that insist in saying people are leaving because of ao/rk. The exodus started years ago. And for different reasons.

When I started the first toon 3,5 years ago I remember there were a lot of players in PWND, I went around all the factions, dedicating only to pvm and roleplaying (yes i leveled a nc pure paladin from 1 to 40 roleplaying all the way), meanwhile I saw nerfs hitting AO, people massively leaving it.

The Rdd was nerfed , true seeing removed from it and from npcs, and other nerfs to rdd dragon stats I have no idea. I started my rdd to see what the actual "nerfed" rdd dragon was... Tough to level, nothing special, for some ways worse than a pure druid dragon, it became my first and only level 40 mule.

Other nerfs, like the bigby nerf, decimated the population of AO. And we are still talking about 2 years ago.

Tried RK and liked dwd more than rdd, at least it had some ok saves (after 6 books), but It has a barely acceptable damage when buffed, and ac is horrible.

When I joined HNs there were like 3 people in it, and rarely everyone on.
Now between some hard work and the jobs givng some hope the faction populated again but didn't last long...
Because of this thread, I know at least a couple players went to play guildwars2..

I'd close this thread if I were the dm, and tell the criers to play with Barbie™ if they don't like competition (pretty understandable if they were lowbies pkers ).

It's also unacceptable to toss all this dirt to people that always play fair, I can guarantee because I did my choice after looking anywhere, they play just for fun and don't want to be involved in politics etc... Just a couple weeks ago we did a succesful dwp run , the last of many others in all the planes. Staying together, having fun is the spirit.

All the noise about multi logging is pointless, I proved that every faction does it. Also its extremely hard to near impossible to do it in pvp. Because most people who can dual log for pvm etc use a mouseless netpad with a sucky cpu and game runs terribly. And nobody is an octopus (unless you know one provide us the picture!)

I saw people who try to do it seriously alone (and you always notice toons not paying attention) but there are some people that must have a friend or relative helping them.
Yes there are also families playing here with their home network, what's bad with it?

I won't cry about being outnumbered when the thing happened the most in years was AO being outnumbered by factions gathering together.

Don't like multilogging? No problem for me, I raid with one comp (remember ultimecia caused some pain in Menzo and the best attempt to stop that toon, buildable in sl and ma and even better because ao token doesn't give any ac to it while ma token does by draining ab, was to log a wm with no taunt, and nobody tried to seriously fight it with another specular mage even if they have them),
I see my allies to raid with one comp as well, because playing two is convenient only when the other is a pm summoner you can leave letting summon do the killing with 80ish ab or a sd cleric, staying parked and unspottable until healing is necessary (so many times happened ao was raided this way). And I keep telling the people who multi log to raid with just one, when they do listen they play a lot better.

If you wrote "pvm only" , its you trying to bring this to pvm only, don't blame the others for your defeat.

What's bad with pvm anyway lol, I love it, I chose neversummer over other servers due to the nice variety of areas, not for the balanced or not pvp (haven't seen a balanced team pvp server after NWKnights)
And I had a good duel with Ryle'h last week, so not everyone shares your destructive and selfish thoughts.

Yes the game is dying but I invite people to not worry too much about it.
Haven't we made friends here?
I did, and enjoying it.
*waves*

P.S.: Tired of complicate clerics and mages, im leveling a pure barbarian (the 5th!), rage and attack. What a relief! I suggest everyone who is stressed to make a pure barb they are so fun, yes ac is terrible, thats why I'm freezing in frostdale waiting my party mate logs back to help me lvl. Another nice aspect of this server.

[Bargeld]

But I have to disagree to those 2 forum warriors that insist in saying people are leaving because of ao/rk. The exodus started years ago. And for different reasons.

I know of a single player and that's the only one I've mentioned. It was one of MASL's newest players, honde, and he left specifically because of the AO job token for +3+3+3. I've never mentioned anyone else or insisted that 'people' leave because of AORK.

I'd close this thread if I were the dm, and tell the criers to play with Barbie™ if they don't like competition (pretty understandable if they were lowbies pkers ).

This is unwarranted. It's not about competition, I desire competition. But I desire a fair playing field, and the amount of dual loggers that were consistantly playing out of AORK previous to this thread was enough to skew that playing field. It was guaranteed that the AORK numbers were increased by at least 2 toons during most PVP with them. With the population where is was, that made is regularly 3v5 or 4v6, and it did impact the 'fun' of it all. This thread was my stand against that. (As far as a lowbie PKer... I am part of DD, the evil guild. Our motto is Red=Dead. I kill everything.)

All the noise about multi logging is pointless, I proved that every faction does it. Also its extremely hard to near impossible to do it in pvp. Because most people who can dual log for pvm etc use a mouseless netpad with a sucky cpu and game runs terribly. And nobody is an octopus (unless you know one provide us the picture!)

We had a single player that dual logged, and he only did it to fight fire with fire as best as he could. He is gone now.

If you wrote "pvm only" , its you trying to bring this to pvm only, don't blame the others for your defeat.

After talking with the devs about the topic, I was advised to make a strongly worded post about the topic. I did. PvM bores me for the most part. For me, It's a necessity for gear and leveling to 40. I would quit almost any PvM adventure for a PvP fight any day of the week.

The original topic for discussion has pretty much died down now. Players have left on multiple sides, and I know from seeing the current playerbase that those were some of the dual loggers (again on multiple sides). I am happy that there will be a trial period of no dual logging in PvP, that was all I wanted from the start. As the discussion here continued, the topic of the AO +3+3+3 token arose again, and I still feel very strongly about it. I want that reduced, and mining has already stated that it will be changed in the future. I had already let up on any continued push for change on it.

But to really put this topic to rest, I would be curious to see the different factions/sides list their known PvP dual loggers just so the point is glaringly obvious. If the players from each side were listed, i'm pretty sure sure we it would be appararent who the regular players were and how much of an impact they had on daily play. A lot of that has changed since this thread, which was not my intent. I don't want to see players leave for any reason or from any side, but a list of those dual logging players along with a note on whether or not they have moved on would be quite insightful, imo.

I'll start:
MASL lost alkpwn. He didn't leave because of this topic, but as far as the dual log impact, he was the only one we had.

I'll also start for AORK, but please add to this list if I am missing any:
Chris (play status needs to be confirmed)
True (play status needs to be confirmed)
Storm (although he/she states no dual log in PvP)
Korr (technically not a member of AORK, he has toons in all factions, but AORK are the only ones that let him play on their side)

I can't think of any dual logs out of TNC. Please add if any are known.

[Ogami]

Another bad consequence of your anti ao/rk propaganda is that newbs are getting fooled real bad.

Example (I heard this):

Tazz was raiding with Whindo Liquor, a pure fighter, Trouble follows roared him with pure barb and he logged out, to log back after a while saying something like "I don't fight op AO token" .

First of all, Trouble has RR tag, which means he is not AO but RK.

Secondly, do you remember how I did beat down whindo? I used Bright Eyes, a cleric/ranger, 50ish ac, max dc implode. The first times i killed you i used harms, when i found you had 30 base fort it was so easy to pop you in a second (30 fort vs dc 46). Did I benefit of AO jobs somehow?

To make that toon with 124 spot and 50 fort i had to spend books, put lolth, pelor and g1 gear, a unique item with 3 spot on it and had to farm Celestia lord for the c/c shield, which lasts 90 seconds only. I had to be good aligned to use that shield (and yea someone smote me with bg, kudos to him).

If i had that build in NC i would have 2 more fort, 127 real spot + 4 from smurf size, and a permanent 50% concealment.

This explains everyone that if we do "ok" (im not saying good im saying ok") its due to dedication, a lot of dedication.
Just think about how much takes to gather the gear and the books for that toon.

If there is a toon that benefits from the jobs, is the multiclass rdd, the jobs are made for it.
But compare it to a cot, with same books : 71 ab on cot with tremendous damage/round vs 63 ab and a damage that is decent only if it does a critical hit; 80 ac on cot vs 73, 60 fort and 60 will on cot vs 40 fort and 45 will. Solid 8 mins lasting undispellable ab vs a dispell bait. Finally 20 dr+8 vs 15 dr +8

This means its real hard to play a toon like Seung mina, you have to use zombie shape, timestop, counterspell, dispell the uv on fighters and use drow darkness etc etc.
The only thing is real high on that toon is the fun of playing it I gotta admit it.. Really fun.


I don't blame Tazz but the people who keep this misleading propaganda, making everyone , especially the newbs dislike pvp and the server in general.

Yes because even if PvM is good PvP is the salt. The cherry on the cake.

[Tazz]

Tazz was raiding with Whindo Liquor, a pure fighter, Trouble follows roared him with pure barb and he logged out, to log back after a while saying something like "I don't fight op AO token" .

If you plan to attack my integrity (which is classy I might add... I have never, ever said or implied anything negative about anyone on this server but it is nice to see you don't have that same respect for others) get it right.

First of all, I was not raiding. MA was being raided so I logged a defender. I walked into the temple and got roared (pure barb token.) There were 3 toons there and I came in solo which is the case 95% of the time. I am the only sl/ma that actually plays regularly. I logged after getting roared, i didn't complain I went back to utility work on my toons. Phentari asked what happened and I responded "I will not fight against that token again, nothing personal."

First of all, Trouble has RR tag, which means he is not AO but RK.

Secondly, do you remember how I did beat down whindo? I used Bright Eyes, a cleric/ranger, 50ish ac, max dc implode. The first times i killed you i used harms, when i found you had 30 base fort it was so easy to pop you in a second (30 fort vs dc 46). Did I benefit of AO jobs somehow?.

Don't remember Bright Eyes and don't remember the fort saves off hand however, im pretty confident it is above 30. If you did indeed kill Whindo with an implode congratz, you are now one of many that have killed me and that is awesome that you took the time out of your day to post that in the forums good stuff ...although any one spell kill or roar or any other attack that insta-kills or stuns etc. - I don't consider a beat-down, a beat-down to me, is two toons slugging it out...

and Ogami, not sure what your in-game name is but it's always a pleasure to meet another stand-up gamer