spell nerfs (it continues)

[RahzeL]

This means ANY dex build is screwed. My tank had 52 STR and still that damn hand was knocking him down sometimes (like 15-20% of times). I think that the knockdown should last only 1 round and then you are dazed, and don't think it should work on mind immune stuff (like a lvl 20 monk). Still, Bio version isn't a spell, is almost an exploit, 'cause there isn't really a way to stop it. Well, but being mind AND knockdown immune.

Here's a tip... get some disc, I've played on many servers where this spell wasn't nerfed and my dex ranger with high disc resisted it 50% of the time... (thats a 10 str and no epic disc and you have 52!?).

As for dexers being screwed, yes in most instances they are screwed when it comes to force-hand, but what kind of dexer is running around in a hostile enviroment where mages can see him? Every char with dex should have some hide/ms that's that builds advantage. STR are the brutes that take the hits, DEX are the ones that dodge em.

[garrykasparov]

Wait...Bigby's forceful is only resisted through discipline when the server is customized to do so (BoW, etc.) The default is to allow only a STR check (and an unbalanced one at that) to resist the spell.

OTOH, I really wish mages would take the advice of pumping up discipline for dealing with KD tanks/monks. Considering the fact that ABs will not reach levels quite as uberish as normally allowable, getting a lvl 21 multiclassed mage with 45+ discipline is not difficult, nor is getting one with 70+ at 40.

[Kirg]

How do you get 70+ discipline at lvl40? Skill 43 + str. modifier (not very high I presume) + two rings (each +5)= 53+
Not anywhere near 70 , but maybe the epic areas will improve the items as well...

BR

[JesterOI]

43 base
+2 str mod (with 14 base str)
+3 skill focus
+10 epic focus
+2 bull str
then the rest would have to be from equip
all 18 points i think

[garrykasparov]

Indeed. The particular model I was considering:

43 base
7 str (+2 14 str, +2 gloves, +3 emp. bull's str)
13 focus (epic and generic)
10 equipment (two rings +5)
73.
Even if you start with the base 8 str you can manage 70.

Also, am I correct in assuming that current bigby checks are still made with the default str, or is discipline indeed being used?

[ToxicOkie]

spell casters are the strongest class in the game, quit your bitchin
i think its great to see some nerfage in that area

[Throst54]

.... bull's str doesnt stack...

yes, but Chela were thier clerics built as well as your mage was built?

[Kelin]

This means ANY dex build is screwed. My tank had 52 STR and still that damn hand was knocking him down sometimes (like 15-20% of times). I think that the knockdown should last only 1 round and then you are dazed, and don't think it should work on mind immune stuff (like a lvl 20 monk). Still, Bio version isn't a spell, is almost an exploit, 'cause there isn't really a way to stop it. Well, but being mind AND knockdown immune.

Here's a tip... get some disc, I've played on many servers where this spell wasn't nerfed and my dex ranger with high disc resisted it 50% of the time... (thats a 10 str and no epic disc and you have 52!?).

As for dexers being screwed, yes in most instances they are screwed when it comes to force-hand, but what kind of dexer is running around in a hostile enviroment where mages can see him? Every char with dex should have some hide/ms that's that builds advantage. STR are the brutes that take the hits, DEX are the ones that dodge em.

MAYBE and i say JUST MAYBE the spell was altered, 'cause there is NO DISCIPLINE CHECK on the base Bio version. Just to let you know that char other than 52 str has 111 discipline too, and still the hand works quite well (111, isn't soooooo few you know ).

[xionic]

Sorry from a little OT but can u tell me what top Lore Skill i should target ?

50 ? 70 ? 100 ?

I just dont know how many i should have to ID strongest items.

[Sofa King Canadian]

xionic i dont think the strongest items will be id able and even if they are why waste all those skill points just to see what you got before getting to a store? Oh and remember they still have to implement the planer areas and other high level areas so you will need way more lore to id planer items than you need for any items that currently drop. I can see taking lore to id potions and such but getting 50+ lore is just plane wasteful. After playing for a bit you will be able to tell what item you have from what type of monster dropped it and what it looks like.

[xionic]

Yes i know that, but since i am a bard (34 or 36th target level) then i can have 36(from bard levels) + spell (10+36) + Lore points = 82 base + lore points.

But that is target Lore of course. So i wonder should i put ANY points in it or just skip it. I will use lore only on low levels (<18) since money is crucial in first stage.

[Kelin]

Skip it.
Anyway, considered that items are idded at shops for half their value, well, you see that actually there is a point in getting high lore to id item alone and sell at shops for full price

[ATI]

if you have the extra skill points, and have already invested in tumble, concentration, spellcraft, and whatever else strikes your fancy, and you still have left over skill points, there are two options you can do.

Save the skill points just in case you PrC or multiclass into something else and put those skill points into some other useful skill, like discipline.

If you aren't or don't see a need for putting your spare skill points into anything else, just dump them into lore. The skill points are extra anyways, put them to good use....people will pay money for you to ID high lvl items, i've seen it happen. Mainly because you have to pay half price to ID items which means you can make some serious scratch charging 1/4 th price or 1/3 price