sure it does, its keeps you from scaling the darn things. thats my point DONT SCALE IT UP!......
+5 is fine. leave it at that. then you dont have to go off and change all the spells to "balance things"
Please (it getting old)
agreed on all of this. I'd like to add however that if there are going to be rings of shadows +7 hide/ms, it woulnt be terrible to have Rings of Light +7 spot/listen as a counter. given all the caps it wont raise the bar on spotter builds.LinuxPup wrote:
Here's how I see it, and I don't necessariliy speak for the NS4 staff... HiPS is very very powerful obviously... can even make a bad player good... but its not unstoppable, and if anything, the overpowering thing are those epic rings of shadows (+14 hide/ms with two of them on).
Also, IMO, spamming HiPS when your target can detect you but can't attack you because it clears the action queue every time is an exploit...not all DMs may think so (not sure), but I definitely do and would most likely deal out punishment.
a general concept of having equivalent +skill/+counterskill items seems reasonable (taunt vs concentrate, spot vs hide etc.) that way its back down to build vs build. and skill.
as for hips spam, i heard its hard to detect as a dm since they can see everybody anyway. so short of some kind of server side log (which may itself be impossible), hips spamming is here to stay (unless the token hips replacement idea pans out as a workaround).
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Silas Fein
- Noob
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:04 pm
- Location: DE USA
there is an epic ring with +7 to spot, search, and listen...its called an epic ring of awareness.
I kno of at least one of these rings to be lost to the ages for all time
I kno of at least one of these rings to be lost to the ages for all time
Last edited by Silas Fein on Sat Dec 15, 2007 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Failure is the oppurtunity to begin again more intelligently. - Henry Ford
Pielo Ashe M.D.
Pielo Ashe M.D.
HiPS mitigation might be possible with a server patch... ideally, 2 settings could be configured in the .ini:
//Once a HiPS check is succeeded, the server will reject additional HiPS for this duration, in milliseconds:
HipsSpamDelay=3000
//If enabled, the server will use the HipsSpamDelay to prevent spamming
HipsSpamCheck=1
If implemented, it works like this:
1. HiPS char uses stealth skill.
2. HiPS char sneaks up on paladin and executes attack.
3. HiPS char instantly retreats after initial attack and attempts HiPS
During step 1, when character successfully executes HiPS, a server side timer is started.
On attempt to re-HiPS, when request is received by the server, it compares the tme difference to the HipsSpamDelay value. If enough time has not passed, the character should received a *Failure: HiPS* status msg, otherwise the check should roll as normal.
//Once a HiPS check is succeeded, the server will reject additional HiPS for this duration, in milliseconds:
HipsSpamDelay=3000
//If enabled, the server will use the HipsSpamDelay to prevent spamming
HipsSpamCheck=1
If implemented, it works like this:
1. HiPS char uses stealth skill.
2. HiPS char sneaks up on paladin and executes attack.
3. HiPS char instantly retreats after initial attack and attempts HiPS
During step 1, when character successfully executes HiPS, a server side timer is started.
On attempt to re-HiPS, when request is received by the server, it compares the tme difference to the HipsSpamDelay value. If enough time has not passed, the character should received a *Failure: HiPS* status msg, otherwise the check should roll as normal.
I hate hipsters other than me... They make me crash, course lots of things make me crash I've tried the fixes, last week I bought a new computer, two processors fancy graphics card etc, That didn't work either.
I think all npcs and pcs for that matter should be at -20 to hit on my characters, cause I'm just a really nice fella. Think the Dev team will help me out on that?
I think all npcs and pcs for that matter should be at -20 to hit on my characters, cause I'm just a really nice fella. Think the Dev team will help me out on that?
Vastly confused
I started this thread out by saying:
I am getting tired of seeing this crap about "fixing" HiPs in game, on shout, in tells and on forums. Just because YOU don't like the fact that the Action cue gets cleared because of HiPs, just because they smoke YOUR butt just about everytime you come into PvP with one, to you all I say stop your whining. This whining didn't start until a rash of players decided to make a bunch of bard/fighter/SD. It may have been discussed on these forums at one time. If it was I missed it, but now it's spilling over into game.
I am so tired of a couple of players and their continuous whining to DM's and Dev's selling them on the idea that something is broken when it's not, so much so that a Dev "sees" the whiner's point of view and the non problem gets fixed. Then is justified to the other 50 or 60 players in game who didn't have a problem with whatever was fixed.
I luv HiPs just the way it is. I luv the challenge of trying to come up with a build to see them 100% of the time and to beat out the clearing of the "Action Cue". Specially now that True Seeing has been adjusted and will give a big boost to any spotter properly built. I don't give a damn if HiPsters frag my butt most of the time. It costs me nothing to respawn from a a PK except failure in my goal, wether it is raiding, defense during a raid or just straight on PvP. For me, I vow to make a build that will beat HiPs every time and I will achieve that goal without Dev making changes to it. That's what NS4 is about. That's what is "fun" about playing NS4. So bloody well grow up and enjoy what has been given to us, for our entertainment at no cost to us. All we need do is sit back and enjoy!!
For those who don't like the tone of this I say: Out of all the DM's, out of all the Dev's, out of all the players. I have paid the price to speak this way. I challenged a HiPster to Thunderdome and lost because of their spamming, because of my action cue being cleared, because of every reason mentioned here by others in this thread. It cost me a level 40 favorite PC and gear. The one thing you don't hear from me is how unfair it was. All I know is that the next time I challenge a HiPster to Thunderdome and I probably will, the outcome will be very different. These are my final words on this subject and I hope that all the complainers take note. I at least, will put "my money where my mouth is".
So Game On!!!
Even in this thread you can find words referring to HiPs as "Exploit" coming from players who play HiPsters. One of my favorite statements being: (para-phrased} "Even though I play a SD myself I still think that they should be fixed. HiPs is over powered"I'm getting tired of hearing "suggestions" on how to "fix" a character's ability because some other character can't get around that ability.
I am getting tired of seeing this crap about "fixing" HiPs in game, on shout, in tells and on forums. Just because YOU don't like the fact that the Action cue gets cleared because of HiPs, just because they smoke YOUR butt just about everytime you come into PvP with one, to you all I say stop your whining. This whining didn't start until a rash of players decided to make a bunch of bard/fighter/SD. It may have been discussed on these forums at one time. If it was I missed it, but now it's spilling over into game.
I am so tired of a couple of players and their continuous whining to DM's and Dev's selling them on the idea that something is broken when it's not, so much so that a Dev "sees" the whiner's point of view and the non problem gets fixed. Then is justified to the other 50 or 60 players in game who didn't have a problem with whatever was fixed.
I luv HiPs just the way it is. I luv the challenge of trying to come up with a build to see them 100% of the time and to beat out the clearing of the "Action Cue". Specially now that True Seeing has been adjusted and will give a big boost to any spotter properly built. I don't give a damn if HiPsters frag my butt most of the time. It costs me nothing to respawn from a a PK except failure in my goal, wether it is raiding, defense during a raid or just straight on PvP. For me, I vow to make a build that will beat HiPs every time and I will achieve that goal without Dev making changes to it. That's what NS4 is about. That's what is "fun" about playing NS4. So bloody well grow up and enjoy what has been given to us, for our entertainment at no cost to us. All we need do is sit back and enjoy!!
For those who don't like the tone of this I say: Out of all the DM's, out of all the Dev's, out of all the players. I have paid the price to speak this way. I challenged a HiPster to Thunderdome and lost because of their spamming, because of my action cue being cleared, because of every reason mentioned here by others in this thread. It cost me a level 40 favorite PC and gear. The one thing you don't hear from me is how unfair it was. All I know is that the next time I challenge a HiPster to Thunderdome and I probably will, the outcome will be very different. These are my final words on this subject and I hope that all the complainers take note. I at least, will put "my money where my mouth is".
So Game On!!!
de_slider & her cross-eyed emu
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-Slave-D'Stinger
-Slave- D'BeeBop a LuLu
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cRaZy8or5e
- PKer
- Posts: 1001
- Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:09 am
De, Hector did not spam HiPS, being able to hide on command is not the kind of spamming that I was talking about. I was talking about standing still and hitting hide and unhide over and over again in rapid succession. My post and my brother's post were not in refernce to normally having one's action que cleared due to your target rollling successfully to hide before an attack can be completed. That's to be expected.
Anyway, valiant effort on ur part in the arena. There is no build that will spot a HiPSer 100% of the time, unless you build something that has shapeshift (as spell or feat) or polymorph and acquire a shape that has true seeing. The fact that HiPS and spot are opposed rolls means that even if you can get your skill up to the 127 ceiling, even if they have a 115 hide/movesilent skill there is still a chance they will be successful in hiding.
Anyway I digress. I tried to explain my position, I don't care that people play how they play. In the end its still play and I still have fun, despite the difficulty.
Oh and we in the NC don't get "pwned" by sneaks, we like to think of it as having a very bad day, and blame our own lack of faith and zeal in the Northern Gods. Otherwise we wouldn't lose
. To the flagellation chamber and the whip of the penitant!
Anyway, valiant effort on ur part in the arena. There is no build that will spot a HiPSer 100% of the time, unless you build something that has shapeshift (as spell or feat) or polymorph and acquire a shape that has true seeing. The fact that HiPS and spot are opposed rolls means that even if you can get your skill up to the 127 ceiling, even if they have a 115 hide/movesilent skill there is still a chance they will be successful in hiding.
Anyway I digress. I tried to explain my position, I don't care that people play how they play. In the end its still play and I still have fun, despite the difficulty.
Oh and we in the NC don't get "pwned" by sneaks, we like to think of it as having a very bad day, and blame our own lack of faith and zeal in the Northern Gods. Otherwise we wouldn't lose
. To the flagellation chamber and the whip of the penitant!"Nobody Expects the Northern Inquisition!!!!"
-Blystos Re-
-Blystos Re-
exactly correct, crazy. for hips to work it HAS to clear attack cues (and for what its worth it doesnt do this completely even today). regular hips is NO PROBLEM. its just sitting there spamming it forever, or attack/hips/attack/hips to the point where you are 100% invulnerable just because you have a faster link.
so if you're saying spamming hips is fine, then you're disagreeing with paper dnd rules, wide swaths of the internet and nwn2 developers themselves!
so come off the "everything is fine u are just whining" high horse. I'm sure people said exactly the same thing for old time stop, 39/1 builds, and good ole bigby. basically everything that makes ns4 cool!
so if you're saying spamming hips is fine, then you're disagreeing with paper dnd rules, wide swaths of the internet and nwn2 developers themselves!
so come off the "everything is fine u are just whining" high horse. I'm sure people said exactly the same thing for old time stop, 39/1 builds, and good ole bigby. basically everything that makes ns4 cool!
LMAO. I'm pretty sure that not a single person at bioware or on the dm team knows what a players handbook is, otherwise if ya wanted to balance ANYTHING, you should just check out the aforementioned book. Everything in 3.5 is as balanced as you can get because allot of people spent the better part of their lives devoted to this game. It's sad but true.disastro wrote:
so if you're saying spamming hips is fine, then you're disagreeing with paper dnd rules!
I have a 3.5e Players handbook Kain, and, Pen and Paper is horribly horribly balanced.
Wait, I didn't express that clearly enough.
Pen and Paper is horribly, horribly, horribly, horribly, terribly, terribly horribly, terribly balanced.
Anything that can cast spells is so far ahead of it magic free counterpart its not very funny. But, then again, Pen and Paper wasn't designed for a versus mechanic, it was designed for a well distributed party of 4-5 characters to fight various challenges laid out before them by their DM.
However, 3.5 is a decent starting point for some balance, and if you're being sarcastic, oh well.
Wait, I didn't express that clearly enough.
Pen and Paper is horribly, horribly, horribly, horribly, terribly, terribly horribly, terribly balanced.
Anything that can cast spells is so far ahead of it magic free counterpart its not very funny. But, then again, Pen and Paper wasn't designed for a versus mechanic, it was designed for a well distributed party of 4-5 characters to fight various challenges laid out before them by their DM.
However, 3.5 is a decent starting point for some balance, and if you're being sarcastic, oh well.
Last edited by Sparky on Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Serving NS4 proper as Lathander and Sleeth as Bahamut.
Yes, I'm a DM, but your build still sucks.
Yes, I'm a DM, but your build still sucks.
