Censorship

Lorkar1 · Post by **Lorkar1** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:44 am

While I agree with Chase locking a topic because of p()rn links. (the whole children play here too thing).
I do not agree with Chase stating you cant post links that say "bad" things about NS.
Come on now Chase (and NS crew since silence gives consent), isn't this a bit ridiculous? Is the NS crew aspiring to become the Catholic Church? What's next??? Heresy charges against those who disagree with the powers that be? Control over the freedoms of the press and speech are what led to the rise of Nazi Germany, and we all know how that turned out.
To remove people that have dissenting opinions that are posted elsewhere smacks of censorship in the worst way.
I believe most on this forum are intelligent enough to realize that what is posted elsewhere(that is critical of NS) is done so by immature children and should be taken with a grain(or shaker) of salt.
That said, to deal with offensive images or the use of images without the owners permission should be directed to the owners of the offending forums.
This is my opinion and mine alone, I am a Constitutionalist and because of that I believe you have to take the bad with the good or else you will soon lose the good and the bad will be imprisoned with the insane, homeless, addicts, the poor, the gypsys and homosexuals.(sound familiar?)

$chase$ · Post by **$chase$** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:56 am

seei could delete this but im not..see this is a private forum we allow you as players to use..kinda like our ball our court. i will not stand by well people post links to sites that trash ns4 the staff or the players..we dont force you to play here. were happy your here and hope for a great future. i hope this clears it up for some
thank you

Post by **Zing** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:04 am

In short to back Chase up here..

We are NOT saying don't post your constuctive critisms on the mod, the rules or the way this server is run. This kind of interaction and feedback is VERY WELCOME.

Vitriolic sniping however and in/direct personal attacks etc etc on anyone else using these forums, staff or otherwise never has and never will be tolerated.

neil420 · Post by **neil420** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:02 am

Agreed. But we've made simple, non-descript posts in the Mystral Defenders forum about us using our new Forums, and that all questions and recruitment questions should be directed there. They've been deleted. Three times. I would understand if the post was lewd, but it wasn't.

No one said anything to him about why it was deleted. Just was. And it looks like Chase did it simply because he doesn't agree with the material on our Forums. That seems like a clear case of censorship to me. Thank you.

Post by **Zing** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:06 am

Vitriolic sniping however and indirect personal attacks are not tolerated.

Continue to post that here and your ability to post will soon be removed.

neil420 · Post by **neil420** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:08 am

What? The link to our forums?

$chase$ · Post by **$chase$** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:11 am

ns4 and staff will not host links that bash ns4 ns4 players or ns4 staff.
\that clear enough for everyone?

Lorkar1 · Post by **Lorkar1** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:20 am

This I understand Zing...however the posts are not located on or in NS forum space only the links. I do not endorse the posts as I find most of them childish and uninformative. I do however defend the right to post on independent forums. As I said before I believe most here see it for what it is, a childish tantrum,(I have this mental picture of Grymm sitting at his computers thumbing his nose and sticking out his tongue while saying naa,naa, na, naa, naa. before his mom comes in and tells him to clean his room).

Post by **VagaStorm** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:38 am

All tho I dont support sencorship, linking to things that would not be alowed in the forum should not be alowed, or it would be easy for ppl to post things elsewhere and just post links to it her... And some of the content in the md forum would probably not be alowed her... Why on erth you dint lock some parts of your forum from unregistered users, I could not figure :p

Post by **Zing** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:38 am

I too defend your rights to post on independant forums.

Just don't advertise any material here that is in poor taste regardless of what that external content may be.

Post by **DeputyDog** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:29 am

Since when is this a democracy? There isnt freedom of speech here.

If we want to lock a forum and delete a guild and remove all their toons we can do that becuase we work on this game for fun. If a bunch of 13 year olds want to ruin our fun then we will take actions to make them go away.

Post by **Binkyuk** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:53 am

If it was private (which is usually the idea of separate guild fora...) then fine, but my first two clicks presented me with a decidedly NSFW picture. This in itself is good grounds for removal of the link (why did we bother removing all that spam otherwise?).
On top of that a good 50% of the content I saw was vicious personal attacks on DMs and Devs. It seems to me this whole site is a thinly disguised platform for a certain individual to publicly bash NS4 staff. It's not allowed here, so neither is linking to a site whose primary purpose is to do it.

Findor · Post by **Findor** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:35 pm

I'm a little mystified as to why there would be a lot of animus towards NS4 staff. ASAIK, the developers are all competent, accomplished professionals in RL who have offered their services gratis to create a really exceptional NWN module. I've played many; NS4 is one of the best I've seen.

As for DMs, they may rub you the wrong way from time to time ( they have me), but that goes for anyone. Your brother or mother ever do that? Vent a little if you must, but get over it. Stop thinking they are out to ruin your lives, because they aren't. Even if they were bent on doing that, they couldn't if you don't have one to begin with! Geez...NS4 is not all there is.

As for free speech, I think many Americans have a really exaggerated idea of what that Constitutional right means. Shoot, even the Supreme Court does. If we could consult the founding fathers, I would bet my life (against anyone else's who wished to dispute me) that they never, in their wildest thoughts, ever construed speech to be a form of non-verbal expression like taking your clothes off. Likewise, I don't think they understood it to be a license to say all manner of things at anytime and in anyplace. Just look what we have now: I can be walking down the street with one of my kids and someone can drive by with the window rolled down blasting the uncut version of 50 Cent's new CD. I'm sure they didn't mean for citizens to be doing things like that.

Post by **Amoenotep** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:37 pm

nice..i wake up in the morning with everyone wanting to motor boat my breasts and i'm the one with a dumb look on my face.....why you gotta pick on the blind man?

Lorkar1 · Post by **Lorkar1** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:41 pm

Findor wrote:I'm a little mystified as to why there would be a lot of animus towards NS4 staff. ASAIK, the developers are all competent, accomplished professionals in RL who have offered their services gratis to create a really exceptional NWN module. I've played many; NS4 is one of the best I've seen.

As for DMs, they may rub you the wrong way from time to time ( they have me), but that goes for anyone. Your brother or mother ever do that? Vent a little if you must, but get over it. Stop thinking they are out to ruin your lives, because they aren't. Even if they were bent on doing that, they couldn't if you don't have one to begin with! Geez...NS4 is not all there is.

As for free speech, I think many Americans have a really exaggerated idea of what that Constitutional right means. Shoot, even the Supreme Court does. If we could consult the founding fathers, I would bet my life (against anyone else's who wished to dispute me) that they never, in their wildest thoughts, ever construed speech to be a form of non-verbal expression like taking your clothes off. Likewise, I don't think they understood it to be a license to say all manner of things at anytime and in anyplace. Just look what we have now: I can be walking down the street with one of my kids and someone can drive by with the window rolled down blasting the uncut version of 50 Cent's new CD. I'm sure they didn't mean for citizens to be doing things like that.

As far as I can tell the United States Constitution did not qualify what constitutes free speech. I believe the founding fathers meant exactly what they wrote, because they also had laws governing sedition, libel. I also believe that if the definitions of free speech were going to change and become more restrictive it would have already happened. And just because there is free speech does not mean there are not consequences for ones actions. Try yelling "fire!" in a theater and see what happens. Or threatening someone. The problem does not lie in the laws of this country but of the complacency in enforcement of said laws.

And DD you are absolutely correct NeverSummer is not a democracy, but the forums if located(physically) within the territories of the United States are still subject to its laws.

Mind you, this whole discussion does not affect me so much (if it did I would simply find another server). But the issue did require someone to speak as devils advocate. Someone who could discuss it in a way without getting it locked in the time it takes to engage blinding speed. Most everyone knows I am no fan of MD and killed more than a few. This was never about MD's forums but about the basic rights all citizens of this planet should be able to enjoy and practice without fear.